Am I crazy?

[BJamesBeck]

I am 95% sure I will be ordering a rifle from the sitting fox in the next week or so here. And although everything is going to be inlet already and the under plugs installed, I am little afraid I might not be able to handle this project. I have never owned a bp gun or even fired one, although I have enough knowledge of them to load and fire if one was handed to me. My grandpa and I had always talked about building one of these kits but never got around to it. He has been dead for 5 years now, and I sort of decided to do a build in his honor. I'm fairly technically inclined and good with tools, but I just wanted to get some opinions before I jump into a project I can't handle. I'm hoping to hunt with this gun next season so I'm not really going for historical accuracy. But I guess let me know what you think about a first timer doing a build and what you think about my selection. Some of my selections were to keep the price down a bit. I couldn't really merit spending over $1000 on my first flintlock. That will come later on.


Here is my selection:

NUMBER
ITEM
Brian Beck POOR BOY 50
PRICE $464

Stock
Plain Maple Verner poor boy
14” LOP (Changed to curly maple Lehigh)


Labor

Shape and inlet 7/8” barrel channel 5/16” RR
$120

Barrel
GM 7/8 x 36” 50 cal (Changed to a GM 42" 50 cal)
$150

Breech Plug
Yes
$10

Sights
Front #275 steel cast Rear #284 buckhorn
$10

Tennons
3- stakeon
$3

Nose Cap
No


Thimbles
2- #272 5/16 steel upper
$8

Lock
Siler lock fint rt. SMALL
$110

Vent
1/4x28 SS
$5

Sideplate
No


Sidelock Screw
1-#101 flat head
$2

Triggers
#333 plain
$15

Trigger Guard
# 425 Penn Steel
$20

Butt Plate
No


Ramrod
3/8 ramin w/steel tip & 50 cal jag
$5

Toe Plate
Strap steel.
$1

Screws & Pins
Yes
$5

Option
Attatch underlugs and sights


Option
Inlet Siler lock OPTION
$100

Option



Option
Shipping & handling $35 TOTAL
$599(I was quoted $550 with the changes I made.)

 

[rabjr]

Well, depends on how bad you want it I suppose...

I was where you are now in 2003 when knowing very little I ordered a parts set and a couple books and some tools and jumped right in...the deep end of the pool. Learned a lot real fast and was scared to death most of the build but it all came together into a usable rifle. So I say if thats what you want to do, go for it! :thumbsup:

 

Do a little more homework. Good choices except for the lock if you are going for a Southern poorboy. Correct would be an english lock. Two good choices would be the L&r Durs Egg, or the Bailes. Also the Chambers Late Ketland would be the best choice. The lock is the heart of the gun, and a proper working one is key. I understand the need for frugality, but a poor built lock will give you nothing but grief. Also to be correct for style an English lock is correct. Just my thoughts, good luck, and take your time. Patience is your most important tool.

Bill

 

[mikemeteor]

I'm fairly technically inclined and good with tools, but I just wanted to get some opinions before I jump into a project I can't handle.

Some of my selections were to keep the price down a bit. I couldn't really merit spending over $1000 on my first flintlock. That will come later on.

since you asked, if you are good with tools and know the value of patience and planning, I'd suggest maybe saving even a few more dollars and inlet the lock yourself. It's very doable with a few basic tools - every builder was a first-timer once! - and if you browse the gunbuilder's forum, many if not most beginners who get pre-inlets end up wishing they had done the inlet themselves.
Plus it'd be good practice for that $1000 build you said you're gonna do later.

But of course, you have only yourself to please. Have fun with it.

oh, if nothing else, cancel that ramin ramrod and go with hickory. You'll be glad you did.

/mike m

 

I forgot to mention that you should not even start till you have one of the building books.. There's an order to a build, and without proper direction, you'll be headed for trouble. This is a parts set, with no directions. I agree dump the rammin rod.

Bill

 

[Birddog6]

I think the first thing ya need to do is buy "The Gunsmiths of Grenville County" builders book & read it about 4 times. THEN decide what you are getting into & if you can do it.

Also, go to the first part of the Builders section & read ALL of Mike Brooks tutorial on building a rifle. Even tho you are getting a precarve, allot of things still apply & you will be doing it. Lots of guys think Precarved means the parts just drop in...... NOT SO........ they basicall make the stocfk so you have the correct shape for that particular style & they parts go where indicated. But the dang sure don't just drop in...... This is NOT a Lyman GPR Assembly kit, this is a box of parts.

If you are good with hand tools, you can build a rifle. You don't need to pay them to do all of that stuff, YOU are building it. The only exception would be have them install & fit the breechplug.

Dump the lock & use a Chambers late Ketland.

Make sure the Breechplug is FITTED & Installed...

Use a Chambers White Lightening vent liner.

Use Dovetailed Underlugs & install them yourself. Do your own sight dovetails as well.

Lastly, Call Tip Curtis Frontier Shop & ask Tip for the same parts set & compare the prices. 615-654-4445

Keith Lisle

 

[fort fireman]

All good suggestions. The only other thing I would add is forget the ramin ramrod and get a good hickory one. It's worthe the extra 6 or 7 bucks.

 

[t-buck]

i see another problem with your plans that the others have missed
you state that you are going to have the ramrod channel done in 5/16 and the ramrod you are going to get is 3/8
this will not work you will need a 3/8 channel
and as the others say ditch the rammin rod and go for the hickory one
t-buck

 

[BJamesBeck]

I will definitely give that other place a call. I'm a little worried about doing the inletting myself, but I'll do a little more research and look into it. Thanks for the suggestions on the lock and ramrod, this is exactly why I asked you guys! If I do order from TSF I kind of need to hurry sadly, because he said he is moving to Florida Dec. 9th and not taking his stock with. So he is giving me better pricing on anything he has in stock now. I'd like to get the kit sooner rather than later also so I have all winter to work on it. I'll keep you updated on all of this business, and I'm sure I will need more help in the future.

Another question I had is should I be worried about a 42" straight barrel being awkward to handle? I'm young, good sized and pretty strong, so I assumed a rifle that's about 8-8.5 lbs wouldn't be too bad to handle.

 

[voltigeur]

no,you're not crazy,maybe a little mad as me but I'm not alone. :haha:

the first tink,don't be hurry,don't forget for the in letting of barrel,lock,and so on, the wood removed can't be added,thus the work do slowly with patience.

you 'll be proud when the gun 'll be finish.
for th weight,if you can carry two bottles of 2 liter water no problem.

 

[Birddog6]

Well, I was not sure, but now am questioning if you are borderline. :hmm: :grin:

Building a rifle of a style you don't know & have never shouldered, may not be crazy, but it definitely is not the best move or use of your money. :shake: Especially if the money is dear to you. It IS going to be muzzle heavy, especially compared to a swamped barrel. If you used a swamped B weight barrel it would shoulder like 7.5#. and balance MUCH better.

IMHO, Anyone... building any rifle of a style they are not exposed to, needs to go find one similar & Shoulder the rifle......

Don't know where ya live, but if within a days drive of Nashville TN or Lodi Ohio, would be well worth taking a day & driving there & shouldering some rifles to find out what fits ya, rather than guessing on things.

Looks mean nothing if the rifle doesn't fit you & you cannot shoot it well.

Keith Lisle

PS: As far as Ramin ramrods, they are very good for staking young tomato plants. That is the only thing I have found they work well for.

 

[BJamesBeck]

Well the comfort issue is definitely a concern, but I'm thinking that since I haven't been exposed to any of the guns (firing them anyways) it will be all I am used to so it won't seem odd? I could be way off.

Another thing that kind of made me wonder was the length of pull. When I measured what I believed to be my length of pull I got 17.5 inches (crook of arm to finger tip) I don't know if I measured wrong because he marked 14 I believe? Will that matter at all? I can imagine a LOP that is too long would be very uncomfortable, but does one that is too short really matter? My sleeve length was about 24-25 I believe, if that helps.

 

[MSW]

I think the first thing ya need to do is buy "The Gunsmiths of Grenville County" builders book & read it about 4 times. THEN decide what you are getting into & if you can do it.

Also, go to the first part of the Builders section & read ALL of Mike Brooks tutorial on building a rifle. Even tho you are getting a precarve, allot of things still apply & you will be doing it. Lots of guys think Precarved means the parts just drop in...... NOT SO........ they basicall make the stocfk so you have the correct shape for that particular style & they parts go where indicated. But the dang sure don't just drop in...... This is NOT a Lyman GPR Assembly kit, this is a box of parts.

If you are good with hand tools, you can build a rifle. You don't need to pay them to do all of that stuff, YOU are building it. The only exception would be have them install & fit the breechplug.

Dump the lock & use a Chambers late Ketland.

Make sure the Breechplug is FITTED & Installed...

Use a Chambers White Lightening vent liner.

Use Dovetailed Underlugs & install them yourself. Do your own sight dovetails as well.

Lastly, Call Tip Curtis Frontier Shop & ask Tip for the same parts set & compare the prices. 615-654-4445

Keith Lisle

couldn't agree more!

the book he recommends is now (to the best of my knowledge) out of print, so you may have to pay a pretty hefty price for it, but this is money you won't spend in ruined parts and the frustration which accompanies such mistakes. (this is, after all, supposed to be fun.)

In addition, check out the DVDs on American Pioneer ... a bunch of their stuff can be rented for a modest fee.

good luck with what will be the first of many builds.

 

[mikemeteor]

Another thing that kind of made me wonder was the length of pull. When I measured what I believed to be my length of pull I got 17.5 inches (crook of arm to finger tip)

Pick up and shoulder a gun, any gun, that feels comfortable to you and measure from the trigger to the back-middle of the buttplate. Use that as your LOP. It will almost certainly be closer to 14" than 17.5".

 

[matt denison]

I'll be the devil's advocate here.

1. inlet the lock yourself and save the money toward a butt plate and side plate. You'll have a much nicer gun in the end.

2. the size thimbles you use determines the size ram rod. Ramin sucks period.

3. The barrel you have chosen will be heavy. Consider either a swamped barrel or a shorter one.

4. If the owner is leaving on Dec. 9 and not taking any parts or other backup then you could be stuck with wrong or bad parts and nothing you or the owner can do until he returns in the spring.

5. Sitting Fox sells parts. Other peoples parts, he collects them up and sells them as parts sets (kits) There isn't anything that he does or sells that can't be purchased elsewhere. Look around, call Tip Curtis, for price and availability.

 

[Birddog6]

Well the comfort issue is definitely a concern, but I'm thinking that since I haven't been exposed to any of the guns (firing them anyways) it will be all I am used to so it won't seem odd? I could be way off.

And in a year or two you may shoot one with the same length barrel only swamped, OR a different style rifle & then say Crap, I could have had THIS !

The way you are doing it, you are buying or having built " a Pig in a Poke ", so to speak.

Means nothing to me, But I Strongly...] advise you go shoulder some & get a feel of what Different Styles with different barrels feel like & could save yourself allot of money & time in the long run.

You would be amazed of how many people get a rifle in their head & say "Oh, that is the one for me", cause they are going on LOOKS of it..... then they try one that really fits them & say, "Dang, this is Soooooooooo much better."

Keith Lisle

 

[THOM]

A couple more things .. before ya git over whelmed
Go to a couple of black powder shoots; and ask some questions.( not while these folks are loading!).. folks on this forum and out at shoots are very helpful..
Are you going to shoot targets; or do ya want to hunt ? Or both .
Dixon's also have a good book; and my first book we bought from Jim Johnston in Ohio.It's a very simple book; and we still use it - coffee stains and all.Videos and d v d' s are a wealth of info
As far as weight; what caliber do ya want to shoot, and like was said; a shorter barrel makes for a lighter gun.
Take yer time; slow down, stop the racing mind...
As one of my friends said " edge-a-ma-kate yer self, git yer di-plomie; and gradge-a-tate..... :rotf: :rotf:
Ramin rods can be turned down to make chop sticks for ramin noodles.. :shake: :shake:
This stuff is fun - make it so NUMBER 1 ..
hope this helps; and have fun !!!!!!!!
" push on the rope " :shocked2: :thumbsup:
Tom - limpinfrog....

 

[Old Salt]

Without a butt plate I see no reason for toe plate.

I'm not a big fan of the buckhorn sight.

Install your own underlugs, front and rear sights.

I don't have any experience with the small Siler but I'd consider a different lock.

Why did you change from a 36" barrel to a 42"?

 

[BJamesBeck]

Changed barrel length for aesthetics mainly. Plus I'm a big guy and sometimes have trouble shooting small guns comfortably. Like I said earlier my trigger pull 17.5-18" so in all my experience with centerfires so far the longer the gun the more comfortable I am firing it.

I'm really leaning towards inletting the lock myself after the encouragement from you guys, and doing some more research. I'm pretty positive I can handle it.

 

[Old Salt]

I was thinking the 36" barrel would give you better balance for offhand shooting. But then my LOP is @ 13".

Asthetically and historically I agree the 42" barrel is a better choice. And for a person your size might work out well.

The best advice I can give you is don't put any tools to wood or metal until you have a clear picture in your mind about how the parts fit and interact.

You know about books as a resource, the forum is too. If you can find somebody at your local ML club with building experience they can be an invaluable help for a person in your shoes. :thumbsup: