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I don't think that's what he meant at all. The truth is sometimes not what either "faction" says it is.redwing said:
Let me guess, you only like "red wing" thinking? :wink:
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America - The Story of Us flubs!
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Let me guess, you only like "red wing" thinking? :wink:
ohio ramrod
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t is a simple fact if we want to believe it or not that:" The past is what happened. History is what is written by the victors and survivors! :hmm: " The native Americans looked at our "frontier hero's " differently than we do. There is a growing movement in the international community to deny the holocoust ever happened.Simply denying what we don't like doesn't change it. Ignoring the past let's us make the same mistakes over and over again. We have a growing movement in this country to blame our problems on people we don't like rather than trying to actually solve the problems! :nono:
"They all forgot where they came from now that they are looking down from that lofty perch"
I am not so sure anyone sits on a lofty perch reviewing the accuracy of movies past or present I get a kick out of watching the old ones and recalling how "good" everything was and how great the special effects were in the 1950's Sci-Fi movies, my grandaughter can do better on her computer now.I believe most respect and hold a place inside them for the films that led them down this path even so it is hard not to toss a lighthearted jab here and there at times.
I am not so sure anyone sits on a lofty perch reviewing the accuracy of movies past or present I get a kick out of watching the old ones and recalling how "good" everything was and how great the special effects were in the 1950's Sci-Fi movies, my grandaughter can do better on her computer now.I believe most respect and hold a place inside them for the films that led them down this path even so it is hard not to toss a lighthearted jab here and there at times.
I plan on watching the whole series. I was put off like others by who they chose to comment. I can also see all the inaccuracies.
However, I also know these types of shows aren't geared towards guys like us. I should note that shows like these create future "guys like us" who just hafta know more than what was presented in the show.
Just keep in mind, if the History Channel wasn't around, you wouldn't get ANY historical shows, like the Independance series they did or the War of 1812. Especially the War of 1812 miniseries. I think the History Channel has done quite well in bringing stories to light that most of the US wouldn't know about otherwise.
From a production standpoint, I'll be they just don't have the money to make sure every item, weapon, clothing, building will be presented exactly the way it should be for every shot. So take it easy, guys. :v
Now, having said that, I was really put off by the lady commentator who had to break down what the Declaration of Independance means to all the sub-categories of Americans: gays, women, minorities, etc. When will we ever just be AMERICANS?!
However, I also know these types of shows aren't geared towards guys like us. I should note that shows like these create future "guys like us" who just hafta know more than what was presented in the show.
Just keep in mind, if the History Channel wasn't around, you wouldn't get ANY historical shows, like the Independance series they did or the War of 1812. Especially the War of 1812 miniseries. I think the History Channel has done quite well in bringing stories to light that most of the US wouldn't know about otherwise.
From a production standpoint, I'll be they just don't have the money to make sure every item, weapon, clothing, building will be presented exactly the way it should be for every shot. So take it easy, guys. :v
Now, having said that, I was really put off by the lady commentator who had to break down what the Declaration of Independance means to all the sub-categories of Americans: gays, women, minorities, etc. When will we ever just be AMERICANS?!
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I gave up on the History channel a long time ago, shortly after it became obvious that they were going to broadcast "UFO's are Real and You're Stupid if You Don't Beleive in Them" shows at least five times a week.
I try to keep an open mind, but please, this kind of drivel does NOT belong in the same category as History.
Yeah, I always wonder why they are told to continually air that particular brand of conditioning. That and wartoons. But, it's easy to figure out why on the wartoons.
I try to keep an open mind, but please, this kind of drivel does NOT belong in the same category as History.
Yeah, I always wonder why they are told to continually air that particular brand of conditioning. That and wartoons. But, it's easy to figure out why on the wartoons.
Ray-Vigo
Yankee
I watch Military or History Int'l MUCH more than regular History now. I'm sick of the "Nostradamus Doomsday Part 81" manure. If the Doomsday is coming, the last thing I need to do is spend the precious little remaining time watching TV shows about it.
MikeChapin
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I finally saw the first two episodes this weekend. I wasn't pleased. If you took what they said as history, Morgan's riflemen kill all of Burgoine's indian guide so he surrendered. Most of it was glossed over history or had the emphasis placed wrong.
The part about Von Stuben being gay was the first I have heard. He was very good at what he did but he didn't get passed over for promotion. Most of what I read was that he never was an officer and was passing himself off as one. The main emphasis was that he knew his business. The rest sounded like an add for "Don't ask, don't tell".
I guess I could watch the other episodes whenever my blood pressure gets too low and it needs a boost.
The part about Von Stuben being gay was the first I have heard. He was very good at what he did but he didn't get passed over for promotion. Most of what I read was that he never was an officer and was passing himself off as one. The main emphasis was that he knew his business. The rest sounded like an add for "Don't ask, don't tell".
I guess I could watch the other episodes whenever my blood pressure gets too low and it needs a boost.
This issue with Von Stuben has been around for a number of years. It started when the Don't ask Don't tell issue was heating up a decade ago. Some one found a story about him having a younger male friend. They played this out to make him gay. They wanted to prove that gays had served from the get go. It was sorta like the stories of Jefferson and Hemming. :hmm:
arctichomesteader
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I loved them showing a late nineteenth century or early 20th kerosene lamp as a "whale oil lamp." I have a few original Sandwich Glass whale oil lamps here; they don't give off much more light than a candle (there's a reason they were commonly sold in pairs). The oil was expensive too.
The big factories often used gas lighting to operate at night, not, generally, whale oil. No mention of gas lighting?
Going further, they made no mention of the events in Vermont during the Revolution (some of which were rather important for the American Revolution in the North), the Revolution itself was given a brief and very lacking coverage. The early settlement wasn't given much time as to the origins of the various colonies (such as people like Roger Williams founding RI after his trouble with the Puritans, etc.). I didn't see Jim Bridger mentioned in the brief section on the mountain men (how can they not bring up such a character?). No mention of the Articles of Confederation or the writing of the Constitution.
Admittedly, having a BA in history, I'm a harsh critic, but seriously, if they're going to try to create some big documentary on our history, do it right. Bring in the historians, not a bunch of politicians! :nono:
The big factories often used gas lighting to operate at night, not, generally, whale oil. No mention of gas lighting?
Going further, they made no mention of the events in Vermont during the Revolution (some of which were rather important for the American Revolution in the North), the Revolution itself was given a brief and very lacking coverage. The early settlement wasn't given much time as to the origins of the various colonies (such as people like Roger Williams founding RI after his trouble with the Puritans, etc.). I didn't see Jim Bridger mentioned in the brief section on the mountain men (how can they not bring up such a character?). No mention of the Articles of Confederation or the writing of the Constitution.
Admittedly, having a BA in history, I'm a harsh critic, but seriously, if they're going to try to create some big documentary on our history, do it right. Bring in the historians, not a bunch of politicians! :nono:
arctichomesteader
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lol
When I saw Bloomberg and Giuliani I figured I'd better change the channel before I start getting angry with them, but I didn't; I had to watch and see how many problems I could find...
When I saw Bloomberg and Giuliani I figured I'd better change the channel before I start getting angry with them, but I didn't; I had to watch and see how many problems I could find...
Like many of you, I spend much of my free time seriously studying 17th-19th C America. So I'll watch anything having to do with that era, then make my own decisions. Beats a dang reality show.
But wow - this is even MORE than the usual level of sensationalism with a minimum of fact checking. One quick example - it was never proven that VonStueben was homosexual. But let's throw it out like it's a FACT - it makes great TV! And then, last night when Sheryl Crow made her comment about people who dare still feel proud to be Southern, insinuating that they must therefore pine for the days of slavery, I got quite angry. :cursing:
Then it occurred to me that if WE are getting sick stomachs over this show so far, think what serious objective eductators and historians - who were passed over for "celebrities" - must be feeling. History channel screwed them over by going for rest of the Uber-PC crowd instead. Bill Maher? REALLY?
This series could have been so incredible. Yeah, I'll still watch it. But overall, I'm embarrassed for the History Channel and imagine a good percentage of people in academia (pro and amateur) feel the same way.
But wow - this is even MORE than the usual level of sensationalism with a minimum of fact checking. One quick example - it was never proven that VonStueben was homosexual. But let's throw it out like it's a FACT - it makes great TV! And then, last night when Sheryl Crow made her comment about people who dare still feel proud to be Southern, insinuating that they must therefore pine for the days of slavery, I got quite angry. :cursing:
Then it occurred to me that if WE are getting sick stomachs over this show so far, think what serious objective eductators and historians - who were passed over for "celebrities" - must be feeling. History channel screwed them over by going for rest of the Uber-PC crowd instead. Bill Maher? REALLY?
This series could have been so incredible. Yeah, I'll still watch it. But overall, I'm embarrassed for the History Channel and imagine a good percentage of people in academia (pro and amateur) feel the same way.
If you want to pass on a History channel fantasy I'd recommend not viewing the episode on "Apocolypse Island".
They take you in search of a Mayan monument on an island located a few thousand miles off the coast of Chile. Volcanic rock pile is more accurate. :bull:
I should have recognized the reference to Don Quijote and Sancho Panza but I was hooked on the Maya theme.
The History channel lost all credibility in my eyes.
Salt
They take you in search of a Mayan monument on an island located a few thousand miles off the coast of Chile. Volcanic rock pile is more accurate. :bull:
I should have recognized the reference to Don Quijote and Sancho Panza but I was hooked on the Maya theme.
The History channel lost all credibility in my eyes.
Salt
I watched it through Saratoga, and then I just couldn't handle it anymore. It was sort of like watching a horrible automobile accident. At first you can't take your eyes off of it as the vehicles crash. Then when you look closely at the carnage you just want to get away and try and erase it from your memory. The worst piece of rubbage ever! :barf:
fort fireman
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Ok guys, here I go. I posted earlier in this thread and was really trying to stay positive. I still stand by the hope that it will spark an interest in some to go out and learn the real history and start the next generation.
That being said , it is not really very good. The first one i watched and made it all the way through. However I was also piddleing around the house so maybe i was alittle distracted during it. I tried watching the second episode but found myself changing the channel. That is pretty bad for me to just give up on a show that i really had high hopes for when the first started advertising for it.
However yesterday i watched The true Carribean Pirates again. I think that one is pretty good. I'm by no means and expert on the subject so it may be a total mess to.
I guess I just remember some of the shows they used to show like The D Boone and Crockett show or the show on Pontiac , George rogers Clark, or Rogers Rangers. They were great. What happened to those type of quality productions.
That being said , it is not really very good. The first one i watched and made it all the way through. However I was also piddleing around the house so maybe i was alittle distracted during it. I tried watching the second episode but found myself changing the channel. That is pretty bad for me to just give up on a show that i really had high hopes for when the first started advertising for it.
However yesterday i watched The true Carribean Pirates again. I think that one is pretty good. I'm by no means and expert on the subject so it may be a total mess to.
I guess I just remember some of the shows they used to show like The D Boone and Crockett show or the show on Pontiac , George rogers Clark, or Rogers Rangers. They were great. What happened to those type of quality productions.
flintlock75
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I also had issues with the first episode. I started t watch the second one and during the Trail Of Tears segment they showed a us soldier carrying a LEFT Handed Smoothbore Musket, not sure how, but it was there. I turned the channel.
Emet Huntsman
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As a history major who PLANNED to teach history (but a stint in the military and financial considerations which caused me to fall in with another crowd)I still maintain that with the resources available they COULD have done a better job.
Truth be known, I suspect the producers set out with an agenda for PC rather than historical accuracy. The use of celebrities instead of qualified historians speaks far more loudly than anything they put on the screen.
There are facts involved in the historical record. No amount of PC, opinion, bias, etc. will change the facts. What I have found poorly lacking so far are the historical facts as evidenced by the shoddy use of such things as clothing, armaments, "whale oil" lamps, tools, personalities, and the list goes on.
This smacks more of historical revisionism in the interest of PC. That can do more damage in the long run than any benefits it might accrue in interesting the younger generation in history. Indeed, by being presenting such a distorted view, how might they deal with the facts when, hopefully, they encounter them?
Finally, as I climb down off my soapbox, to call this the Story of Us borders on false advertising. :v
Truth be known, I suspect the producers set out with an agenda for PC rather than historical accuracy. The use of celebrities instead of qualified historians speaks far more loudly than anything they put on the screen.
There are facts involved in the historical record. No amount of PC, opinion, bias, etc. will change the facts. What I have found poorly lacking so far are the historical facts as evidenced by the shoddy use of such things as clothing, armaments, "whale oil" lamps, tools, personalities, and the list goes on.
This smacks more of historical revisionism in the interest of PC. That can do more damage in the long run than any benefits it might accrue in interesting the younger generation in history. Indeed, by being presenting such a distorted view, how might they deal with the facts when, hopefully, they encounter them?
Finally, as I climb down off my soapbox, to call this the Story of Us borders on false advertising. :v
Here's Sheryl Crow's actual quote:
"There is still, in some areas of America, a great pride in being Southern and holding true to the original Southern attitude. I think our clinging to the idea that slavery is a right and just way of life, you know it is a dark spot in our history."
That they allowed her to paint the south (and being proud of where you come from) with a broad brush stroke like that, as a fact/truth is bad enough. But that this show and her opinion will be used in classrooms across the country just makes me depressed.
"There is still, in some areas of America, a great pride in being Southern and holding true to the original Southern attitude. I think our clinging to the idea that slavery is a right and just way of life, you know it is a dark spot in our history."
That they allowed her to paint the south (and being proud of where you come from) with a broad brush stroke like that, as a fact/truth is bad enough. But that this show and her opinion will be used in classrooms across the country just makes me depressed.
