American Pioneer Powder & Flintlocks

[Rokon]

I hate to stick my toe into a discussion of BP replacements, but Black-MZ is even better than APP.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I hate to stick my toe into a discussion of BP replacements, but Black-MZ is even better than APP.

From what I've read, Black - MZ was speculated to be just rebranded APP. Makes me wonder, though, since info from Alliant and others indicate that it's not at all hygroscopic like APP.

Haven't seen any in the local shops, but its' said to be pricey.

Here's the hype - I suspect the truth may somewhere in between: http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackMZ.htm http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/blackmz.aspx#facts

 

[strato50]

I've been looking for it, here and there, the local gun shop doesn't carry it and won't order any in, not sure why but I didn't bother them very much.

I'm not sure where I CAN get it, other than paying with a kidney to order online.

Like you said, from what I've read and a couple reviews, it's like APP without the supposed velocity variances & less problems with humidity, the 2 primary vices of APP that have been reported.

 

[stude 283]

Ok guys,It's true APP will work with a flintlock!Now before all you APP haters start I tested over the last month with 3 different flintlocks,over 100 shots with no fail to fires and only one slow fire(pan primer just about empty only a couple grains,didn't feel like walking in to fill so let er go).
Ignition might be a little slower than 3f swiss,but still faster than most I see at the range or shoots.4f swiss in the pan.
I've been using sugar based subs since the days of Black Canyon(anyone remember that?),but never tried it in a flintlock because I listened to all the experts.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I'm guessing they must have made some improvements since the bottle I have was made. The stuff I have is more like kitty litter than powder. Very course stuff won't flow through my flask. Nor where near as good as Triple Seven. For my shooting needs I'll stick with Triple Seven and Goex.

 

[stude 283]

Rat trapper,
I'm guessing you had 2f APP. I've never fooled with it only 3f.I usually use the finer grades especially with a patent breech.
Now I'm not saying APP will ever replace black in a flintlock nor should be used if black is available,but it at least is an option,although you still need black for the pan.
90gr JSG 3f grouped in the same group as 70gr 3f swiss,maybe even a little tighter.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Yes it was 2F and boy was it course. The same guy gave me a bottle of 3F and that work better.

 

[stude 283]

Strato,
I tried the dry patch with APP as you and also APP suggested.Was I surprised when all patches(except 1 which was not centered) where perfect and as good as the moosemilk lubed ones with 3f black.I have used APP and/or cleanshot since it came out,but always used a lube of some sort.I guess sometimes it does pay to listen to what the people who make the product suggest.Never too old or too smart to learn.

 

[strato50]

That's interesting. Until now I've yet to read of anyone's actual experience with APP and dry patches. I'm going to try dry patches myself and a bunch I just melted some T17 (the blue bore butter) into, and see if it makes any difference.

 

[stude 283]

I spit patched the first one and after that no lube patches looked perfect,loaded easily.I must have misunderstood,I thought you had tried dry before or I probably would not have tried it,even though I had noticed APP's recommendation.Sometimes we learn by accident.I shot dry patched tonight with a 32 percussion.Patches looked good,but no accuracy,but not with lube and 3f either.