Ammunition for a muzzleloader.

[sethwyo]

Looking for some input, experience and if anyone has some actual historical accounts to share,

Wanting to try to get a mini bullet to load for my 50 and 54 and start doing some long-range shooting I'm going to try 300 yards and if it works out going to try a little bit farther.

Wanting to try the mini so I can have a bit more weight than the round ball, more weight =[•]= more power to stop a buffler with one shot.

Also looking for something that would be historically accurate for around 1800 to 1850 for a paper patch bullet in a muzzleloader

 

[sethwyo]

cylindro-conoidal bullet is a type of muzzleloading firearm projectile with a convexly cone-like front end ("nose") and a cylindrical rear body, invented by Captain John Norton of the British 34th Regiment in 1832. It had a cavitied base, so when fired, the thin concavity wall ("skirt") would expand outwards and seal up the bore diameter. The origin of his idea is an interesting one: when in southern British India, he examined the blow pipe darts used by the natives and found that their base was formed of elastic lotus pith, which by its expansion against the inner surface of the blow pipe prevented the leakage of air past it.


1836, Mr. W. Greener, a London-based gunsmith, improved on Norton's bullet design by inserting a conoidal wooden plug into its base. Although both inventions were rejected by the British Ordnance Department, the idea was taken up in France, and in 1849 Claude-Étienne Minié adopted Greener's design and produced the "Minié ball

 

[sethwyo]

so it looks like the only way to get a historically accurate more powerful rifle round is to go ahead and do what they did back in the day , bigger ball , a thicker patch more grease an a heap more powder, the reason why rifles like the Hawkins where built with those heavy Barrel an big bores.

There were some conical bullets back in those days that would have gave a lot more weight than a round ball, but they seem to have been made for a specific model of rifle and would not be historically accurate to figure somebody in the Rocky Mountains or the great Plains would have had been using these in their hawkin

 

[sethwyo]

The cylindro-conoidal bullet is a type of muzzleloading firearm projectile with a convexly cone-like front end ("nose") and a cylindrical rear body, invented by Captain John Norton of the British 34th Regiment in 1832.

 

[sethwyo]

 

[rafterob]

Unless you have a military type musket, you don't want a minie ball. A conical, yes. If your rifles have relatively shallow rifling, paper patching will work well. If deeper rifling, paper patching is not the best choice. You have a lot of experimenting ahead of you.

 

[mariamadkins]

I’ve tried loading mini bullets for my .50 and .54 before, and it really adds some weight compared to round balls. For long-range shooting, I’ve found minis to be more accurate and powerful. For historical accuracy, around 1800 to 1850, paper patch bullets were definitely used.

 

[westrayer]

I think I still have a mold for a .54 Minnie. As I recall the recoil was heavy. No longer have any .54 guns.

 

[sethwyo]

At 300 yd the 54 round ball is slowing down and dropping so fast I'm not sure it's practical to even try ranging it for that

 

[sethwyo]

220ish grain bullet, beef Tallow for lubricant on the patch,
110 grains of 2f powder an
At 300 yards it's really dropping.
But I'm sure plenty of moose, elk, Buff , bear and even some of the smaller goats were taken at this range back with this load back in the good ol days

 

[shaman]

Looking for some input, experience and if anyone has some actual historical accounts to share,

Wanting to try to get a mini bullet to load for my 50 and 54 and start doing some long-range shooting I'm going to try 300 yards and if it works out going to try a little bit farther.

Wanting to try the mini so I can have a bit more weight than the round ball, more weight =[•]= more power to stop a buffler with one shot.

Also looking for something that would be historically accurate for around 1800 to 1850 for a paper patch bullet in a muzzleloader

I had good luck with my 1in28" .54 cal Hawken using the Lee R.E.A.L mold.

I think 300 yards is optimistic, especially with the .54 cal.

 

[longcruise]

At 300 yd the 54 round ball is slowing down and dropping so fast I'm not sure it's practical to even try ranging it for that

How are mortars sighted. Might be a useful methodology.

 

[bpd303]

I have had good luck with Buffalo Bullets in my 50 caliber guns, out to 150 yards, but I also think pushing to 300 yards is unrealistic for accuracy.

 

[tenngun]

What’s your twist rate?
If you have a round ball gun it will be 1/48- 1/72, it may not stabilize a conical well.
Now a worthless opinion for you, I don’t believe you serve your game well with a ml shot at long distance. If it’s out of range for a quick clean kill with ball it’s out of range for a conical

 

[sethwyo]

So I got a handful of these today,
not sure how authentic they are for early 1800s, looks like I need to pack them with some lubricant.

 

[sethwyo]

What’s your twist rate?
If you have a round ball gun it will be 1/48- 1/72, it may not stabilize a conical well.
Now a worthless opinion for you, I don’t believe you serve your game well with a ml shot at long distance. If it’s out of range for a quick clean kill with ball it’s out of range for a conical

Now that it's been brought up I'm going to have to check that again,
I don't remember what it is.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

300 yards with a .54 cal (or any M\L BP rifle) is optimistic that you would get anywhere near POA.

I've ran my .54 across my Crony and with a PRB over a charge of 110gr FF BP gives me an average 5 shot MV of 1,709.

My ballistic program shows with the rifle zeroed at 100yds, the drop from 100yds to 300yds is 105.8" or roughly 8.83 feet. Velocity at 300yds is about 720fps.

 

[#BPBReloadingFFL]

You need a Sharps not a RB rifle. I doubt hundreds of critters were taken at 300 yards & RB back in the day.
Those critters were ambushed at close range.
Then shooting 120gr powder under a 400+ grain slug in a thin barrel weak stocked rifle may be asking for a disappointing outcome.
Your wasting your time. You want to shoot 300 yards BP, buy the gun that is made for it.

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

Agree. I'd never put 120gr of BP under a projectile of 400+gr. Some may, I wouldn't.

 

[tenngun]

Conicals were made for battlefield. They are better by far than a ball. However battlefield it doesn’t matter if you get a clean kill or a wound, you remove the enemy from the fireing line.
Game requires a clean kill. That’s a clear shot in in the boiler room. While three hundred yards is deadly range for a conical a shot in the guts is a slow death, and perhaps lost game.
Drop is a killer. Twentyfive yards off in your estimate may mean the difference between a hit and a miss
Conical has so many advantages over a ball but still get close