An ethics/legal/neighbor question

[dchawken]

OK, long story short - I like guns, esp my CVA .50 Hawken and .54 T/C Renegade. Never been deer hunting, but seriously considering it. Just bought 13 acres in WV with regular deer crossings.

Problem - 13 acres doesn't exactly spread to the horizon. If I shot a deer and it ran more than a hundred yards, it could run off my property. Lots of different situations out there. All is privately owned, some is hunting land, some are 5 acre recreation plots, though the nearest house is 1/2 mile away.

I'd feel terrible to let a wounded animal run away to die, but I'm not too sure about stalking across someone else's property with a rifle. And if the situation was reversed, I'd be mighty peeved to come up on someone dressing a deer on my property without asking. I think most of my neighbors would understand, but it would probably be uncomfortable.

Any thoughts?

 

[DMURPHY317]

In the past I've found that doing a little homework to find out who owns the properties around you and contacting them in a friendly/non threatening way can go a long ways in smoothing out any questions. Getting an agreement for example to allow them access for game retrival only to your property if you can have the same priviledge to their property. Don't forget to offer to help watch out for tresspassers and/or other problems for them. In other words, be a good neighbor. Also get the permission in writing and get their phone number, they may not be the one who questions your right to be there.

 

[bigbore442001]

It is a shame in a way that you have to think about this issue. I know that in the past, one had a right to retrieve wounded game. I know that when hunting Connecticut, if wounded game goes on posted land you get the warden to help retrieve it.

But as stated before, I am sure than contacting the abutters will be the best way to deal with the situation.

 

[Flint50]

Here in Colorado, one must contact the land owner and get permission to track wounded game.
I think good shot placement would prevent the deer from going to far tho

 

[freetrapper20]

I have kinda the same situation where my 30 acres in WVa is located. Make a good shot and you should not have to worry. Be off a little, and you might have to track 'em. There are 8 other property owners on the mountain I'm on. We all got to know each other and fortunately things worked out. Most of them hunt, but not all of them. So we all agreed to extend the same priviledge to each other. Over all, that now gives me roughly 200 acres to hunt on. Like others said above, see if you can find out who is around you and how they feel. Maybe they hunt too and won't mind. The ones that don't hunt let me on their property in exchange for reporting back to them on the condition of their places, etc., as they usually are not there in the winter. I give them a little deer meat too at times. (In my part of WVa if the land is posted I believe you're supposed to have written permission). Might want to check into that too.

 

[GobblerKnob]

All good advice. Knocking on doors ahead of time will be the best approach. In PA, you have an obligation to make a reasonable effort to retrieve your game. However that does not give you the right to trespass. If a landowner refuses to give you permission to track/recover your game, contact a conservation officer. That landowner is not not allowed to keep your game, either. Most times, though, a little homework ahead of time will eliminate any trouble. Of course, a well-placed shot should also keep that sort of thing from happening. :m2c: :imo:
Rick

 

[buttonbuck]

I have a similar situation, I hunt on 6 acres I can track on two sides of the "fence" but not on the other, In Illinois, good luck getting a warden to come out....I set up my stand where I know if they run very far they will run where I want them to, you get to know the deer well on some small pieces, One comment you made.... I would not advise dressing a deer on anothers property that makes bad PR for hunters, to have someone who is a fence sitter on the hunting issue to find a gut pile on their property is not a good thing. At Most my drags are maybe 200 yards to the truck. I keep a rubermaid tote bin to put the guts in and take them to the bottom ground where I do not hunt, feed for coons and coyotes. An interesting note is last season I watched two varmants, follow a blood trail from a deer I shot the previous day, they know where to get food.

 

I'm clear on two sides but I have one neighbor who dislikes guns, hunting, etc. However, we are both "gentleman" farmers and do work for each other plus I do all of his welding, usually for nothing, so he doesn't bother me anymore about shooting target or hunting. Maybe you can work some barter with someone if they are a little stubborn with you wanting to hunt or trail game.

 

[Dave K]

I have an agreement with my neighbor about retreiving game. It works both ways. But, we don't go on each others property to hunt, only to locate wounded game. As far as retrieving wounded game, in Ohio no one can trespass to go after game, even with the game warden, without permission of the land owner. Yes, the land owner can also keep the game that has fallen on his property, but he must obtain permission from the state to do so.I have yet to see the permission denied to the land owner to keep the game, but I am sure it can happen. Best to know the laws of your area, but most neighbors want to be good neighbors and can get along.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Knocking on doors ahead of time will be the best approach.

I never hunt private land without asking first . . . and sometimes I even conform to the landowner's refusal. :haha:

I own 1 acre. Luckily, most of the neighbors along the road I live on are right-thinking folks and we all get along. One fellow whose land corners mine keeps his posted and (you know the type) hunts everyone elses but allows no-one on his own. :curse: We work around him. He's not the sharpest crayon in the box, and I take a twisted satisfaction in small game hunting and stump shooting (bow) a little wide of the boundries, as he never gets out except during deer season without his ATV. :: Pretty easy to avoid. :winking: Snow cover kind of limits things.

 

[GobblerKnob]

I hunted spring turkeys with a guy one time. We were set up on a noisy gobbler that was steadily coming in. Pretty soon, the guy I was with stood up and took off like his ass was afire. Not knowing what was going on, I followed suit.
I caught up to him as he was trying to catch his breath. I asked him why in God's name he was running. He asked, "Didn't you hear that tractor?"
I told him I did, but what difference did that make? He said it was the landowner and we really didn't have permission to be where we were.
As it turns out, the gobbler we were hunting was giving him fits and he wanted to kill it so badly, he was willing to do anything to accomplish that. I don't hunt with him anymore.
I went back and asked the farmer for permission to hunt. He gave it willingly and even told where there was a loudmouthed gobbler hanging out. I killed that bird later on in the season.
I tell that story whenever I hear someone crowing about having exclusive access to property that is posted. Don't ever think you are the only one hunting a piece of property. No Trespassing signs only keep the honest guy out. :imo:

 

[Slamfire]

When I was in high school, a classmate's Father purchased a large property adjacent to his. It's far reaches extended to the road adjacent to our place. I asked him for permission to pursue wounded game, and was denied. I was permitted to hunt his groundhogs but not his deer, or to pursue my deer onto his property. I politely declined to shoot his groundhogs, and secretely started driving most of the neighborhood deer to his place. In a couple of years the depredations caused a complete change of attitude. Maybe that wasn't strictly the most ethical way to handle the problem, but I thought his indifference to animal suffering deserved an object lesson. :hmm:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Don't ever think you are the only one hunting a piece of property. No Trespassing signs only keep the honest guy out.

True 'nuff. True 'nuff.

Don't confuse my wise-arsedness with criminality. 80% of the time I get permission when I ask in unfamiliar territory (down from 90% plus 20 years ago).

According to the Cayuga and Oneida tribes, we're all trespassing in this part of the state. ::

 

[cayugad]

It sounds like you need to do some pre-season socializing with the neighbors. Contact them and tell them that you will be hunting your property and although you probably will not need to.. but in the event an animal does cross the boundries, you would need to go onto their property. Then ask them if they have a problem. Most of the time they will agree.

I have a person (a rather anti social fellow) living back in the wood here that everyone avoids. It was rummored he would shoot at you if he caught you on his land. Well a person shot a nice deer and I was helping track it. From all indications as night was falling, it was headed to his property. They wanted to leave it. I refused. So I drove up to his house, knocked on the door and introduced myself. I explained the situation and he agreed I could go after that deer. All the others were shocked that anyone would go and ask his permission. He's an animal lover and does not hunt deer. I told him we could track this wounded deer down and recover it with his permission or we would just shoot another and leave that one to the wolves... He agreed it would be best if the deer was recovered.

Turned out the deer made a circle on us and never did enter his land. We got the deer. I then went back and told him the results of the hunt. He then invited me in for a drink.. We now wave when we pass each other.

 

[GobblerKnob]

"Don't confuse my wise-arsedness with criminality. 80% of the time I get permission when I ask in unfamiliar territory (down from 90% plus 20 years ago)."

I wouldn't think of it! ::

 

[Slamfire]

"Don't confuse my wise-arsedness with criminality. 80% of the time I get permission when I ask in unfamiliar territory (down from 90% plus 20 years ago)."

"I am not a crook."

Haven't we heard that before somewhere? :crackup: :crackup:

 

[dchawken]

Gotta tell you guys, I'm finding this board invaluable.

Actually, the members of the "Home Owners Association" get together twice a year to drink beer, eat barbecue, and talk about the plowing and maintenance on our common gravel road.

According to the HOA agreement when the land was subdivided, no hunting is allowed, but all the full-time residents hunt with a nod and wink. No actual laws are being broken.

Obviously what I need to do is to bring this question up with them. That will cover 2 sides of my property. The other 2 sides might be a little difficult, but luckily they're mostly uphill, and not an easy slope for man or deer.

Thanks as usual! :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

"I am not a crook."

"Only Nixon could go to China"

("I did not")

In 1972, Congress established National Hunting & Fishing Day recognize sportsmen for their many conservation achievements. On May 2 of that year, President Richard M. Nixon signed an official proclamation creating the first National Hunting and Fishing Day. Each U.S. President since then has also designated the fourth Saturday in September as National Hunting and Fishing Day, and the thousands of events and activities held have introduced millions of Americans to the outdoors.

Ain't no one truly good or truly bad.

 

[buttonbuck]

Some more populated areas tend to develop into a really difficult situation to hunt in. your area sounds similar to where I hunt where most of the residents have 5-20 acre places and you have one person who has 120 acres, I HAD ASKED this person if I could track if I phoned him first, the answer "absoultely not" The reason stated was that if you shoot an animal is should drop in its tracks, and that his daddy would beat him if the game he shot did not drop he got a whoopin. Strong ethics in some regard, and most of my 20 or so deer harvests have run less than 30 yards, with shotgun muzzleloader and longbow, but I shot my first buck last year with a slug, I have always belieeved in 8pt or better he was 10, he was shot through the heart and lung but still went 75 yards, I had to track him on a good neighbors land. Deer are going to run when hit, no doubt about it. you have to consider you may loose deer when you take that shot. The buck may have turned when shot and went the other way, then what? luckily this last season I sherif I know is hunting this property and this may help in my recoverty. and may be in an inroad to game retrival. I may just start hunting State ground again. with a portable self climbing stand.

 

[Tahquamenon]

Michigan Law is illegal to peruse game onto private property without the owner's consent.

I would suggest obtaining written permission versus a verbal or a handshake. I've been stopped and challenged by a relative here and there on occassion that was unknowing of the permission and being able to produce a written note takes care of any doubts.

I have written permission from owners on three side of me. They also have my written permission if they need to retrieve an animal.

There is an entire square (640A/C) nature preserve that borders my land on the fourth side. No one is allowed to enter to retrieve a wounded animal.
The preserve is the deer's "sanctuary" and in the middle of a swamp and pines. That where they bed. Lot's of deer. Multiple herds in fact.

Fortunately I've only lost three deer to the nature preserve over the years. Several folks that I allow to hunt my property along with my neighbors have lost deer to the nature preserve.

It's unfortunate, but I also understand and respect the needs of the preserve.