Another accuracy question

[Jarikeen]

I could really see myself getting into muzzleloading in a big way and have leanings towards the smoothbore flintlock. I know this question has probably covered before but I,m looking for more specifics. What is the accurate range of such, and in the hands of a good shooter what kind of groups could one expect to achieve off the bench with good sights (althought I suspect most shooting is done standing).
How does rifling improve the groups or does it mostly improve further accurate range.
All thing being equal - is percussion more accurate than flintlock.
Regards Peter

 

[Leonredbeard]

Jarikeen,
May I say welcome to the forum! Most smoothbores do not have rear sights so it takes a good bit of practice to make your eye the rear sight. Then you must experiment with charge, ball size, patch combo to get a good load. I have seen guys stack balls on each other at 25 yards shooting standing up. Practical range is 60 yards or so. Rifling with the right patch/ball/charge can extend practical accuracy to 125 yards. Most men will shoot a rifle better than a smoothbore, the rifling spins the ball and makes it more acurate at any range after 25-40 yards. I have stacked balls on top of each other standing up with several rifles at 25 yards. Caplock is not more accurate than flint. A good lock on a flinter will be nearly as fast as a capper. Follow through and trigger control will allow an experienced flint shooter to outshoot a capper in the hands of one less experienced. Practice is the key. I hope this helps. Have fun. Get that smoothie flinter!
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[Jarikeen]

Thankyou for taking the time to answer the question and thanks for the detail, just what I was looking for.
Regards

 

[musketman]

I agree, keep in mind that a smoothbore is NOT a rifle and this must be kept in mind, however, most experienced smoothbore shooters can hold their own against a rifle out to around 75 yards, then the gun's limitations come into play...

Get to know your gun (this takes time), sight it like a shotgun, not a rifle and you will do just fine...

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

I've seen some really good quality smoothbores (both flint and percussion), AND exceptional shooters that can outshoot many people who use a rifle at 100yds. That is not what you should expect from getting started though. It's just that it IS possible to do...

Most smoothbores either don't have sights or may only have a small blade or bead front sight to provide a basic pointer to better aim the gun. If the gun is of the suitable style, it's possible to use the slot in the screw that goes through the tang of the barrel as a "pseudo rear sight", or you can put sights on a gun... it's just that if we are being true to the designs of the originals, we may have to shoot without sights.

A rifle can easily increase the "effective range" of a gun by a factor of anywhere from 2 - 20 times greater. The higher multiplier number comes into play when using elongated conical bullets, instead of a patched round balls. Don't bother trying to shoot any bullets out of a smoothbore, they go out of kilter after they leave the barrel and tumble uncontrollably. Rifling does improve accuracy by better stabilizing the bullets--which in turn gives them a longer effective range.

For whitetail deer hunting in the heavy cover (such as where I mostly hunt)--there is no great superiority or advantage to using a rifle. I rarely get shots over 40yds, and 25-30yds is a typical shot. The ball that is "not spinning" from the smoothbore might shoot just as well as the "spinning" ball from the rifle at these ranges.

Typically being traditional muzzleloaders, we like to use patched round balls as the preferred projectiles. Have you ever shot a flintlock before? How about a muzzleloader of any kind? Ever shoot any modern guns?

Percussion guns may not be inherently more accurate, but if the powder flare of the flintlock (and the delay) distracts your hold, aim, concentration, and follow through; then you should maybe select a nice percussion gun instead.

This being a "first" muzzleloader, I would look for a nice used gun, you might decide that you do NOT like the "retro" challenge of a muzzleloading gun. I doubt you want to spend a pile of loot--just to "find out". Traditional styled muzzleloaders are getting harder and harder to find as factory made gun choices are fewer adn fewer. There are also custom builders/makers--but that's when you get into the "$1200 plus" guns.

What particular gun do you have in mind? How much are you willing to spend to get started? Remember that there are a lot of "possibles" out there to buy, but you won't need all of them to get started for "trying out".

Now I've probably confused you more than a "dog staring at a porcelin cat", but I did want to give you some things to think about.

also with kind regards,
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Jarikeen]

Excellent replies, thankyou. To answer your question, I used to shoot air rifle, .22LR, shotgun and Archery 17 odd years ago before legislation changes in Queensland. After that I just stuck with archery. Unfortunatly due to an old shoulder complaint I had to give up archery. I'd forgotten how much I had enjoyed rifle shooting and have been shooting again in .22LR benchrest and sillouette. I have had a little experience with muzzleloading way back then, but I wont go into details. The club at which I currently shoot has some of the best muzzleloaders in the country, but they shoot mostly on the days I work. Follow through with shooting in archery was a major part of form, and I think that holds true for all shooting though probably overlooked by most. If I can shoot as accurately at 50 yards with a smoothbore as a rifle, I think I'll use a smoothbore. Close range hunting holds more appeal as it requires special set of skills. The whole process of prep. each shot and making each count, often with components you made yourself gives one a sense of accomplishment.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

Follow through with shooting in archery was a major part of form, and I think that holds true for all shooting though probably overlooked by most. If I can shoot as accurately at 50 yards with a smoothbore as a rifle, I think I'll use a smoothbore. Close range hunting holds more appeal as it requires special set of skills. The whole process of prep. each shot and making each count, often with components you made yourself gives one a sense of accomplishment.

You've got the right attitude about it. I think you'll do just fine. Now... off to get a gun right?

Good Luck on fulfilling your quest,
WV_Hillbilly

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

In answer to your question about accuracy, I had a .56 caliber T/C Renegade smoothbore that had good sights (Aperture rear and bead front) and I could shoot 1 1/4" groups with it from the bench at 50 yards. I'm not a great shooter, average at best, but I didn't have any trouble getting good groups. You may want to look at a "smooth rifle". They have the smoothbore barrel, but otherwise look like a Kentucky, Pennsylvania, or Southern mountain rifle, complete with sights.

Good luck in your search!

 

[Jarikeen]

Thankyou all for your replies, it has been most helpful.
Regards Peter

 

[Leonredbeard]

Jarikeen,
In close in hunting, not having a rear sight can be an advantage, encouraging 'point' shooting. Just point and shoot like a shotgun. I had one siutation where I had to point and shoot my riflegonne and looked over top of the rear sight and shot over the animal. If I had had my smoothbore barrel on at the time...
God bless.
volatpluvia