Another glass bedding question

[billk]

Form the previous replies and other post readings, I gather that most would glass bed the breech and tang area only. Why not glass bed the whole barrel channel? Is it not necessary or is it better for the barrel to have some room in the channel? Wouldn't glass bedding make the fragile forestock stronger and better protect it from oils, weather, etc.?
Thank you,
BillK

 

[BrownBear]

Technically it would probably make the forend stronger and more weatherproof, but what a LOT of work to do. I haven't tried it cuzz it just hasn't been necessary, even in my very wet climate. We got 8.76" of rain last Friday, Saturday and Sunday for example.

A little finish on the inner surfaces takes care of the waterproofing needs just fine and reaches areas you just never would get to with glass bedding.

As for the weakness of forends, they're only weak with the barrel off. They're nicely supported by that stiff ole barrel all the time you're in the field. I'm kinda wondering about the tradeoffs for removing even more wood from the thin sides of a forend before you ever get around to replacing it with bedding. I see a disaster waiting to happen if you slip even a little on those thin sides.

I've done a mountain of glass bedding on CF guns over the years- some of it for accuracy, but a lot of it "restorative" for older used guns- and I'm real comfortable with the process and many of its variations.

I've glass bedded a couple of tangs for friends on ML kit builds that went haywire and one for myself that arrived with a misalignment to the lock. No big deal, really. But glass bedding a barrel full length? That does give me pause. Lots of pause!

 

[Birddog6]

I don't understand your concern. :hmm: You just bed it like any other barrel. In fact you bed the barrel before you do the underlugs or drill any holes, so it is actually easier to bed than a centerfire.

Inlet the barrel & tang, bed the whole thing at one time & it is done & it is no big deal. I have done dozens of them & no failures & none I couldn't get out. Makes the stock stronger, seals the good good.

More accuracy ? Who knows. They all shoot better than I can hold them anyway, so I have no idea...... :haha:

 

[paulvallandigham]

You might need to use modeling clay( or window putty) to seal the inlets for the barrel pins, or keys, and any cuts through to the Ramrod hole. A "dam" near the tip of the stock to hold the liquid epoxy from dribbling out, and to allow it to fill the length of the stock may also be needed, but you can epoxy bed the whole barrel if you think about it.

However, I have talked to a lot of gunbuilders about this, and most prefer to just bed the barrel to the first underlug, or key, stopping short of it. Some putty or modeler's clay is all that is needed to create a dam to control the forward spread of the epoxy.

One barrel maker likes to use a round file to file a half round " slot " on the bottom flat approximately where the ball or bullet will sit in the barrel, so that epoxy will fill this "slot" to act as a recoil lug, and stop rearward movement during recoil of heavy loads. He uses a round jeweler's file to keep the depth of this slot small, but claims that it helps dampen barrel vibration, and protects the tang and breechplug area of the stock from damage. I don't know that he is right, but he has built way more guns than I could ever dream of making. I am listening to him.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I was getting some sideways movement on my barrel in the stock. I glassed the end 4 to 5 inches and my accuracy improved by leaps and bounds. My groups improved but my confidence in the rifle also has sky rocketed. Not all my guns have been glassed but I would not think twice about it if I felt they needed it. Ron

 

[tg]

I think that most builders don't do the whole thing as it does not need to be done, It won't help any accuracy issues as on a centerfire, just another modern concept that is not required, it is a good way to save a stock that someone went a little heavy on the barrel inletting.

 

[Birddog6]

You inlet the barrel & tang first. Then you do the dovetails & inlet them & etc. after you have the barrel bedded & back out. You just cut the underlug inlets in the stock thru the bedding just like you would thru the wood.
You put modeling clay at the end of the barrel at the breechplug/barrel fit, just fill it level & scrape any excess off with a razor blade. And if you use Acruglas Gel, you don't need to worry about it running out anyplace. It pretty much stays where ya put it, not like the old stuff.
:thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

When you are building a gun, YES, you bed the barrel and tang before you do the dovetails for the hangers, etc. But, many stocks need corrective aid( Is that liberal speak enough????) after a shooter buys a completed gun. That is what I thought this poster was dealing with, and the basis for my remarks. I have glass bedded several rifles that had HORRIBLE work done on the barrel channels, at the factories, and in all the cases, I improved the accuracy of those rifles considerably when I glass bedded the barrels and tangs. I also prefer using Accuglas.

 

[MSW]

check out the latest issue of Muzzle Blast magazine for some good how- to tips

 

[William Joy]

I think epoxy is a great material and I even discussed with a friend of mine who is into benchrest shooting glueing barrels and actions in - and yes , epoxy bedding and glueing works - however, I will also never forget the words of my ex - boss and mentor ( and master gun smith in Ferlach) : Epoxy bedding is a way to fix your shortcoming as a gunsmith ( meaning I screwed up again). A good smith doesn't need to glass bed - he fit's the wood to the metal. The only time we were allowed to use glues where to fix cracks or to glue woodpieces in for repairs.
So here my thinking: instead of fixing it by glass beading - why not laminating some wood in and then beddidng the metal again. Done right almost invisible!

 

[Stophel]

I feel very strongly that glass bedding, even on "modern" guns, is NO substitute for proper inletting, and especially on a muzzleloading gun.

Now, I'm not totally opposed to the use of epoxy, everybody has to fix something on a gun every now and then, and sometimes there is just no way to do it otherwise, than to use epoxy.

If you have a gun that has crummy inletting at the breech, sure, bed it (though I would not bed the entire barrel...I think that can cause moisture problems, and rust on the barrel), but I wouldn't start out with the intention of bedding the breech.

I have only found TWO epoxies that I like and think are worthwhile. One is good old J B Weld, which sets up hard and strong, though like most epoxies, doesn't hold onto wood all that well simply because it is too thick and just doesn't soak into the wood enough to get a real good hold on it. The other is Brownell's AcraGlas, which is outstanding stuff. Thin and will soak into the wood and hang on for dear life.

My goal is to never have to use epoxy for anything, but since I'm only close to perfect, and not fully there yet :blah: I still have to glue a piece on here or there...

 

[Tinker2]

“I feel very strongly that glass bedding, even on "modern" guns, is NO substitute for proper inletting, and especially on a muzzleloading gun.”

Yes, absolutely, positively, ...but I do want my own guns
appropriately glassed.

Nothing beats AcraGlas.



Tinker2

 

[LRB]

Chris, the only 1/4" rifles I have owned,two modern BA, had to be glassbedded to get there. I mean 5 shot, 1/4", center to center, 100 yrds. If they are not glassed, I don't care how good they are hand bedded, they may shoot 1/4" one day, but not the next, or put the group in a different place. Few people require that kind of accuracy, but I used to get a real kick from turning an aspirin to powder from a hundred yards. I still have a 1/4" .270, but no longer have the scope required to do aspirins. I have to settle for shooting dimes with the scope on it now. I won't argue bedding for ML's, though I believe it does have many worthwhile advantages, that to me is just a personal choice. As long as a ML rifle does what I ask of it, I don't care either way, as long as it can't be seen.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

..... If you have a gun that has crummy inletting at the breech, sure, bed it (though I would not bed the entire barrel...I think that can cause moisture problems, and rust on the barrel), but I wouldn't start out with the intention of bedding the breech.....

Chris is absolutely correct when it comes to muzzleloading firearms. With the exception of the breech (if you have done a mediocre job - as I have been known to do :redface: ) it has no effect whatsoever. AND the barrel WILL rust where it contacts the bedding compound. Back about 20 years ago when I "stretched" a number of cut stocks on military muskets that had been cut for use as shotguns, I always had a problem with rust on the bottom of the barrel where it contacted the Accraglass that I used at the joint to make the splice. Fortunately, the muskets that I was stretching had bands and the barrels were easily removed once a year so that the barrel could be cleaned with steel wool. If this was not done, well... I shudder to think. There is no reason to glass bed a muzzleloading barrel. A modern suppository gun operates under a whole different set of rules and you can use bedding compound there all you want.

 

[William Joy]

You are right... glasbeddding will help - however I have a NON glassbedded 6 mm BR and it shoots under 0.2 inch consistant also....

 

[paulvallandigham]

Well, is that rifle stock pillar bedded, with a free-floating barrel? That would explain the lack of need to use glass bedding!