Another patch lube question

[TarponStalker]

I'm sorry to beat this horse any more but I need some advice. I shoot a .50 cal flint with a 42 inch GM barrel. Red pillow ticking and .490 RB. Ive been using a mix of bees wax and olive oil for lube. It works fine as far as grouping but I can rarely shoot more than twice without swabbing. Sometimes even the second shot is tough to load. Spit patch works great but not for hunting where I may leave gun loaded for weeks.
Btw I use 80 grains of FF powder.
I want to try either TOW mink oil or Mr Flintlock lube as I've read about both. I've studied both on the websites but need help on which may let me shoot more practice shots between swabbing.
I'm in the South so cold isn't a big issue. Thanks for any advice.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Changing lubes will not change that. If you are using real bp, or most of the fake powders, dirty is part of the game. Swab between every shot and problem will go away. It really is not a "problem". It is just part of the reality of shooting ml rifles.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I am thinking that your problem is not your lube but your patch/ball combo. I would measure the balls you are using and if they are truly .490 then I would try a .015 or .018 patch. I think you are getting a lot of blow ”“by fouling from that combo. I have a 50 GM barrel in which I use a .498 ball and .015 patch without any undue force to ram down the barrel and I can shoot that for 12 to 20 shots without a problem. But I usually swab between shots as a practice because I get the best accuracy that way.

 

[tenngun]

I like mink oil or lard even. Bees wax/olive oil didn't improve my shooting. I shoot a .495 /.015 patch on 60-70 grains 3 f. I can shoot a sting of 5 without swabbing but find everything seems to work better if I swab tween shots. It is just part of a loading routine. 1-2-3-4.brings me comfort and keeps confusion down.

 

[Bob J]

My .54 GM barrel (42") shoots well with .015 to .018 pillow ticking, wonder lube (by any name, including Eastern Maine Shooting Supplies lube) and a .535 ball. I'd bet yours would shoot well with a similar patch and .495 balls.

 

[TarponStalker]

After years of shooting bp I do understand that I need to clean after shots and that's the dirty (fun) part. However I also see lots of posts from shooters that claim to shoot dozens of shots without swabbing. It always made me feel like I was doing something wrong. It sure does appear that maybe I'm thinking wrong about ball/patch size. I've noticed several that use a much tighter combo. Maybe I am letting blow by foul my bore? I always thought a tighter fit would just make things worse after the first shot.
I'm still gonna try a new lube. I'm pretty sure the wax mixing with burnt powder may be the issue for me. I've heard lots on here from those who use mink oil and recently some who use Mr Flintlock so I thought I'd try it.
Thanks for the replies.

 

[jamesthomas]

I shoot a .50 cal. Green Mountain barrel. I use a .490 ball, 70 grns. of 3fff. and a .024 mattress ticking patch with Mink oil. I can usually shoot at least 5 to 8 times without swabbing with this load. This combo is not hard to load at all. I do have some Mr. Flintlocks lube that I just got in that I am going to try.

 

[nkbj]

My old DGW's fifty is a photon torpedo out past a hundred yards and ridiculously accurate.
But only if I clean between shots.

 

[longcruise]

Many things affect your ability to shoot without wiping. Humidity is a major factor. Most of my shooting is at RH of 10 to 25 and many of the lubes that let you "shoot all day without wiping" just don't work that way at all at low humidity. As you have discovered, spit will let you shoot without wiping. It works because wet lube wipes as you load.

So, you should be looking for a wet lube that can be left loaded without rust problems. I have never used the Mr flintlock or mink oil so can't comment on those. But, the Hoppes lube and solvent fills the Bill.

I like to shoot matches and range sessions with spit or soap/water and usually don't wipe between shots. For hunting I use one of the grease type lubes and wipe between shots. It calls for a range session before the hunting season because it doesn't shoot the same as the wet lubes. If your sights are not adjustable it can be problematical.

Reducing your ball or patch size is folly, IMO. you know what you are using fits because you can load it with spit or by wiping between shots.

 

[azmntman]

But, the Hoppes lube and solvent fills the Bill.

If yer not gonna swab between shots this is the BEST i have found in my 42 years of ML bliss. It is water based and I dont leave it in the gun though (longer than a day). Try it, if you like just swab after you miss the first shot hunting. Not an issue!

 

[Jim C]

:thumbsup: I learned a very long time ago that to expect consistent accuracy, wiping between shots is the only way to fly. I don't shoot just for the sake of burning powder, I fully expect to hit whatever I may be shooting at.

 

[Maven]

If you're still searching for a patch lube, try Stumpy's Moose Snot (recipe below). Btw, I substituted canola oil for the castor oil (peanut oil will also work) and have been very happy with how well the modified SMS works:


Beeswax 2 oz.
Castor Oil 8 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.

Heat beeswax in a soup can set a pot of water. ( A double-boiler. I keep my beeswax in a one pound coffee can and measure out what I need by melting it and pouring it into measuring cups). Add just enough water so the inner can does not begin to float (should be just short of the lube level in the can). Heat the water to a low boil. In a separate can, add the castor oil and Murphy's oil soap (cold). Once the beeswax is melted, swap the castor oil can in the pot of water for the beeswax. Add the beeswax to the oils. It will clump up. Stir with an ice tea spoon as the mixture heats up. When it fully melts there will be a scum that floats to the top and just won't mix in. Be patient. DO NOT COOK THE MIXTURE. Once the solids are dissolved there is no need to heat further. Skim the scum off. Remove the mix from the heat and wipe the water off the outside (so it won't drip into the container when you pour it out). FINAL TOP SECRET STEP: Add a teaspoon of Murphy's Oil Soap and stir vigorously. This last step makes the lube frothy and smooth - really adds to the appearance; though it doesn't seem to matter to the function of the lube. Clamp the can in the jaws of a vice-grip pliers and pour into the waiting tins. Allow to cool a half hour.

Note: it if is a hinged tin - line the edge that has the hinges with a strip of aluminum foil so it doesn't ooze out before it cools.

 

[longcruise]

I don't think there is any water in it. Kerosene comes to mind.

 

[Billnpatti]

Before I started swabbing between every shot, I found that I got the most shots before having to swab when I used straight Ballistol on my patches. Small bore rifles seem to have more of a fouling problem then the larger bores but even with my .36 and my .40 I would get nearly 20 to 25 shots before having to swab.

If you buy some Ballistol and are not satisfied with it as a patch lube, and I can't imagine that would happen, you can mix it 1 part Ballistol to 10 parts water and it is an excellent black powder solvent. I just spray it on my revolvers after I disassemble them and the fouling just melts off. I'll admit that is has a funky smell that is somewhere between licorice and toe jam but if you leave the bottle open for a day or so, the smell goes away. It's great stuff, I highly recommend it. :thumbsup:

Also going from 2f to 3f will tend to reduce some of the fouling as well.

 

[TarponStalker]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I did try Ballistol last year but didn't give it as good a test as I should have. After the first couple of shots the land owner where I shoot noticed smoldering patches in the grass. It was probably not an issue but I didn't feel too good about continuing with the lube. I've never heard of others having this issue. Diluting would have helped I'm sure.
I don't shoot competition and only get to shoot 30-50 shots per year so I can't test as well as I'd like to. I just have to make sure my gun is accurate enough to hunt with and that I'm able to reload quickly without hammering a ball down the bore

 

[longcruise]

I would not worry too much about the reloading quickly thing. Pretty rare to get that second shot!

There are other things you can do to speed up the process though. Have a premeasured load of powder, a prepatched ball in a block and a dry wiping path within easy reach. Set your rod up so that it sits even with the muzzle with the jag attached.

Wet the wiping patch in your mouth, wipe the bore, pour the powder, start the ball and ram it home. Done in less than 30 seconds.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I would not worry too much about the reloading quickly thing. Pretty rare to get that second shot!

Excellent advice! :thumbsup:

If you hurry and your first shot is ineffective ...what make one think a fast second shot will be any more effective?

 

[Jim C]

You should consider giving the Dutch Shoultz shooting system a try. I did and I shot this 50 yard 5 shot group today, the best one I've ever shot at that range, using his system. It really works.

 

[Zonie]

The confusion is due to Hoppe's.

For over 100 years, "Hoppe's No. 9 Solvent", made for cleaning smokeless powder was a favorite.

It has worked great and it has that distinct smell that some men have said they would like to have in an after shave lotion.
My memory of it goes back to my days as a little kid sitting beside my dad while he cleaned his pistols.

The Hoppe's No. 9 Solvent has a LOT of petroleum in it and it doesn't work worth a darn for cleaning or swabbing black powder muzzleloaders.
http://www.hoppes.com/bore-cleaners/no-9-solvent


Then, not that many years ago, Hoppe's created their "Hoppe's 9 PLUS Black Powder Solvent & Patch Lubricant".
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/8...aning-solvent-and-patch-lubricant-8-oz-liquid

It is totally different than the Hoppe's No. 9 Solvent.

It is water based, works well for black powder and doesn't work worth a darn for cleaning a modern smokeless gun.

Personally, had I been in charge at Hoppe's I would have fired the idiot that named the black powder solvent anything with a "9" in it.

That does nothing but confuse everyone that has anything to do with it.

They should have called it Hoppe's No. 10, or 12 or even 86. Anything but something with a 9 in it.

What's done is done and it's water under the bridge but just be aware that black powder shooters want to see the verbiage "BLACK POWDER" on the label.

 

[daniel collums]

i have used a handful of different lubes and so far the mink oil has done the best. like most i patch between shots when at the bench but in the woods hunting if i reload i dont. after i find the right load for a rifle i will see how many times i can fire and reload without swabbing until it gets to hard to load or accuracy stops.