Another speculative question

[Gene L]

I wonder how many Americans in the flintlock era had the ability to knap rifle flints. It's a pretty specialized talent. I personally think they purchased already knapped flints rather than carrying around a heavy rock.

I don't even know if these flints came from America or were produced abroad. Any insights on this?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Considering the barrels of flints that come up in store inventories, not many hunters would look for flint and knap the rock to the shape of a gun flint. Any knapping would be limited to restoring the edge of the gun flint.

 

[George]

It seems apparent from the many advertisements in the 18th-century newspapers that most flints were imported. There are ads for many types offered for sale, and it is frequently mentioned that they are imported, just arrived, from Bristol, etc.:

French
best oil French
Dutch Gun Flints
English
"firkins of English gun flints , also best oil flints"
"a few Thousands of fine Gun Flints , which will be sold at 5 Shillings and 6 Pence by the Hundred"
oil gun flints
"black and French gun flints, agate ditto"
French oyl flints
best Dutch oil flints
common and best Oil Gun Flints
black and oil flints

There were apparently some people with flint-knapping skills, because at the beginning of the AWI Congress published this:

The Pennsylvania Gazette
July 10, 1776
PHILADELPHIA, July 10.
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
Resolved, That the Board of War be empowered to employ such a number of Persons as they shall find necessary to manufacture Flints for the Continent; and for this purpose to apply to the respective Assemblies, Conventions, and Councils or Committees of Safety of the United American States, or Committees of Inspection of the Counties and Towns thereto belonging, for the names and places of abode of persons skilled in the manufactory aforesaid, and of the places in their respective States where the best Flint Stones are to be obtained, with samples of the same. By order of Congress.

Here is a fascinating video of making English gun flints in the traditional way, for those who haven't seen it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XPEoiY3NnI

Spence

 

[Gene L]

I saw that video, which I couldn't pull up from the link but I feel it's the same as I saw a few years ago.

As for knapping, back when this film was made about 90%+ of the knappers died with lung disease from inhaling minute flint molecules. There's a name for the disease, but I don't remember it. I suppose modern knappers use particle masks.

 

[Don Steele]

Thanks Spence.
After watching the video, I believe that if I had one of those big chunks (spalls..????) and a couple of days to work, I might be able to produce 2, maybe 3 reasonably good gun flints..!!!
🙄🙄

 

[George]

They make it look easy, don't they? You can see how they were able to make what the old boys called 'double flints', which I assume are flints with two cutting edges. Those flakes they wind up with and then break up into flints are naturally shaped that way.

THE VIRGINIA GAZETTE
January 24, 1771
NORFOLK, January 14, 1771
...MARBLE FLAGS, twenty four Inches and a Half and twenty Inches square, blue and white veined; double OIL FLINTS, &c.

Spence

 

[Artificer]

Gene,

In the 18th century until 1775, if you wanted the BEST gun flints then you purchased the "best grade" of FRENCH gun flints. This because the French knew how to make a better shape of flint until the English Knappers found out how to knap flints as the French did.

The shape of the "Best French Gun Flints" is what we know today as the best grade of English flint normally with two edges front and back and a more or less flat surface on the top and bottom.

Both T.M. Hamilton and Dr. De Witt Bailey document the English only knew how to make the poorer quality wedge shaped or gunspall flints until around 1775 when English Flint Knappers offered the "improved" shaped flints (that were actually French shaped flints) to British Ordnance.

There are stories about how one or two French Flint Knappers either came to England to make more money or were captured or their ship was grounded on the English Coast during a storm. I don't know if we will ever know for sure, which is true.

Believe it or not, when England was not at war with France many times in the 18th century, even British Ordnance bought French Gun Flints when they could, because their shape was so much better.

Smugglers and Dutch Traders brought French Flints to the colonies throughout the 18th century, even though when done legally, there were high tariffs they had to pay to bring them here. Of course the smugglers didn't pay the tariffs.

The French flints were some times called Amber or Oil Flints as Spence mentioned above, because the stone they had was different shades of brown as opposed to the Black English Flint.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

You can see how they were able to make what the old boys called 'double flints', which I assume are flints with two cutting edges.
Spence

Spence, you are absolutely correct. The shape of these flints were the "Best Quality" or "First Quality," depending on the documentation, with two sharp edges. "Second Quality" French Flints still had a more or less flat top and bottom, though only with one sharp edge. Third Quality French Flints were wedge shaped or gunspall shaped flints and the only British made flints until they learned the secret of French Knapping around 1775.

The book, Colonial Frontier Guns by T.M. Hamilton has quite a large section on gun flints, how they were made in France and England, how they were shipped here, etc.

Gus

 

[necchi]

As for knapping, back when this film was made about 90%+ of the knappers died with lung disease from inhaling minute flint molecules

:hmm:
Uhm, can you provide anything that verifies that statement?
This is the first time I've ever heard of "flint" itself causing a disease of the lungs.

 

[tenngun]

We do come across in archeological sites som American chert flints... all Indian made? :idunno: the gunflint mi is said to have got its name from making local flint in to gun flints.
I would note that as much as we like to ”˜do it our selfs’ most everyone bought what they used.

 

[Coot]

We have to keep in mind that most of us today have more "hobby" time & money than all but the rich had in the past. We can go to the library & get how to books, we can watch instruction videos on line - our ancestors had to learn in person from someone who already knew the trade. Likewise, most of us can buy a wider range of tools than the average person could afford generations ago. When it was simply a matter of everyday life & not "for the fun/satisfaction of it", I expect that most people defaulted to whatever was the cheapest & easiest way to get what they needed.

 

[necchi]

the gunflint mi is said to have got its name from making local flint in to gun flints

You mean the "Gun Flint Trail" Minnesota?
It is/was all about then name of a lake that for some reason got the name "Gun Flint".
Flint is rare in Minn, we do have some Chert and plenty of Agate.

 

[TFoley]

Good little YT video there. I live not far from Brandon in Norfolk, location of the finest English flints ever located.

Look up 'Grimes Graves' - a neolithic flint 'mine' dating back thousands of years.

tac

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Unsure about the death rate, but the associated disease is pretty well known.

Knapper's Rot is a form of Silicosis which is also associated with potters, sometimes called potter's rot. A large portion of the workforce in Brandon England who knapped gun flints, died before they reached the age of 50.

Sources:

Kalin, Jeffery "Flintknapping and Silicosis". Pudget Sound Knappers. 2010
Batty Shaw, A "Knapper's Rot, Silicosis in East Anglian Flint Knappers". Medical History. 25: 151”“168 (1981)


LD

 

[Eric Krewson]

I can't imagine a guy on the frontier not knowing how to knap flints. I have been around enough flint knappers who make arrowheads to pick up the process in a matter of minutes, it is pretty straightforward and simple.

I can make a usable flint with a round hammerstone and a piece of deer antler.

That said; it is all about the material not looks. I can make a simple gun flint out of the right material and have an incredible shower of sparks. Does my flint look like a Tom Fuller flint; not even close but I am after the sparks not cookie cutter precision.

 

[Gene L]

Interesting. I wonder how many flints a frontiersman would knap in a year. And flint doesn't grow just everywhere. Indians where I live used quartzite for arrowheads and where available used obsidian. Which is unsuitable for gunflints.

Of course, they also used flint, but it wasn't available everywhere.

 

[tenngun]

I was thinking it was mi :redface: but it ”˜one of them thar M states up nawth’ :haha:
I first heard about it on a science show, showing the grain in flint the some what circular lines that shoe up in the stone. It’s the growth rings of the alge like colonies that built the flint. David Attenborough was showing the flats of flint there as a demonstration. In my memory he wa saying Michigan. It was many years ago.

 

[Billnpatti]

As for knapping, back when this film was made about 90%+ of the knappers died with lung disease from inhaling minute flint molecules

:hmm:
Uhm, can you provide anything that verifies that statement?
This is the first time I've ever heard of "flint" itself causing a disease of the lungs.

Yes, I , too, would like to see where you got your information. I am quite aware of the lung diseases resultant from stone cutting, grinding and polishing since these actions create very fine respirable dust. But, flint flaking and knapping do not produce these fine respirable particles. The fine chips and flakes produced in knapping of flints are much to large to be inhaled.

 

[Gene L]

As for knapping, back when this film was made about 90%+ of the knappers died with lung disease from inhaling minute flint molecules

:hmm:
Uhm, can you provide anything that verifies that statement?
This is the first time I've ever heard of "flint" itself causing a disease of the lungs.

The disease is Silicosis and you can read more about it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapping#Health_hazards

Here's what it says about health hazards:

"Historically, flint knappers commonly suffered from Silicosis, due to the inhalation of flint dust. This has been called "the world's first industrial disease".[3][6]

When gun flint knapping was a large-scale industry in Brandon, silicosis was widely known as Knappers' Rot.[7] It has been claimed silicosis was responsible for the early death of three-quarters of Brandon gun flint makers. In one workshop, seven of the eight workmen died of the condition before the age of fifty.[3]

Modern knappers are advised to work in the open air to reduce the dust hazard, and to wear eye and hand protection.[3] Some modern knappers wear a respirator to guard against dust.[6]"

 

[Eric Krewson]

Any busting of rocks produces a fine mist of particles you can't see but will find its way to your lungs.

All the serious flintknappers I know wear dust protection and usually have a fan blowing the dust away from them.

DC Waldorf is one of the early superstars of modern flintknapping with plenty of books and videos to his credit. Apparently he knapped artifacts commercially for most of his life without dust protection and announced a few years ago he had to quit because of the damage to his lungs.

Think of small shards of razor sharp glass in your lungs, that's what you get from flintknapping if you leave off the dust protection.