Any tricks for removing a stubborn tumbler?

[rabjr]

I have a brand new Chambers Colonial Virginia lock. I've got it almost all disassembled except I am unable to seperate the cock from the tumbler. I am using a 1/8 punch within the screw hole and it will not budge. I'm afraid to use more force than I already have for fear of bending the plate or breaking the tumbler...I can't believe this thing will not move. Help! please.

 

[rich pierce]

I back off the tumbler screw ( holding the cock or hammer on) 2 turns max and give that screw a sharp rap with the handle of a screwdriver or a copper or brass hammer while holding the plate in my other hand. This usually starts it backing off just fine. Back off a couple more turns, a lighter whap, and it's done.

 

[rabjr]

I tried that, it will not move and if I hit it any harder I fear the screw head will break off.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

what rich pierce says will almost always work. However, if it dosn't, do not use the 1/8" punch inside the tumbler hole, I had a tumbler shaft so tight on an L&R lock a number of years ago that the shaft broke off and stayed in the hammer square. I had always used a punch or driver that was just small enough to clear the shaft hole in the hammer but that time I grabbed the small punch and, being a lazy person, I used it. :: Best to use the punch that will fit the face of the shaft and clear the hammer - the force is evenly distributed and should move the tumbler, no problem. I've used this on stuborn, rusted antique locks as well as tight new ones and it has always worked.

 

[crockett]

Metal expands when hot, contracts when cold. Frozen metal however may be brittle. I have read that some folks who glass bed barrels and can't get them off will stick the project in a fridge( must be pretty big) It may work in your case. Maybe some others can comment.

 

[rabjr]

I screwed a 8x32 lock screw all the way into the tumbler and tapped the head only to have the screw bend.

 

[rabjr]

Heres a pic of what I'm dealing with,that screw bent and the tumbler will not move.

 

[loophole]

Use the biggest punch which will fit inside the hole in the hammer--bigger than the hole in which the screw goes. Support the lockplate on the back side with a couple of metal blocks of equal height, placed as close as you can get them to the tumbler. Use a goodsized hammer and give the punch a pursuasive whack.

 

[rich pierce]

That is a real stuck one allright! I can see you've got yourself in a pickle. The best thing is to send it to Chambers and tell him you need to be able to remove the cock or tumbler every few years and can't seem to do it.

If you feel confident to keep on working it, I'd play a propane torch on the base of the cock, with 8-32 bolt in place while holding the tumbler in a vise to act as a heat sink. I'd go no further than warm- not even to straw color for fear of tempering the tumbler too far. The resume whapping after taking it off the vise.

 

[crockett]

Not to be overly simply but no part of the punch/drift should be contacting the cock- only the tumbler. I don't know whether any penetrating oil would help. Are you afraid you are going to punch a hole through the tumbler?

This is just for comments. It is always been said using a wedge is an absolute no-no but maybe someone knows a safe way- maybe multiple wedges from different angles. I was told NEVER use a wedge but maybe there is some safe way to do such.

 

[Dave K]

I tried the, leaving the screw in the tumbler and back off 2 turns about a month ago.Gave her a wack with a brass hammer. I didn't get the hammer off, but I did strip the screw on a L&R lock. I won't do that again. Bill Cox can confirm my mishap and I can show you the bill. There is a hammer puller out there somewhere, which would be the ideal choice. Bill Cox told me to use a small drift that fits in the tunmber hole and that does not upset the threads.

 

[crockett]

Looking at that picture some more I figure you must have wacked that bolt pretty good to bend it. I think Rich Pierce is right. See if you can Email the image to Chambers and ask him what to do. I may be wrong but some of those tumblers are probably put on under pressure, maybe a bur, etc created a mechanical lock of some sort.

 

[rabjr]

Pressure? wow you ain't kidding. I used some heat and another lock bolt, squared things up between the vise jaws and rapped it a few times before I finally felt it give, then tapped it on out. Think I'll hit this with a small file before I put it back together lol.

Thanks for the help guys I appreciate it much! eace:

 

[Stophel]

I do the punch-in-the-square-hole thing. I had to beat a tumbler out of a hammer on a Traditions lock the other day (make sure when doing these that you put a big sheet or something all around and under the vise you are using to catch the fly which will pop out...Wish I had...).

Basically, lock producers don't do them right. (in my unabashed opinion! : When I build a lock, the square on the tumbler and the square hole in the cock are slightly tapered, so they are easy to assemble and easy to disassemble, and the cock won't get loose...if it does, you just crank the thing down some more and she'll tighten up. Most production locks have their square tumbler shanks parallel and the cocks are mashed on with a 10 ton press or something. I've gotten them where the tumbler had actually raised a LARGE burr on all four sides of the square hole in the cock from being pressed in. There was barely room for the screw to pass through! I like to have never got that sucker out. It works, I guess, but woe be to the man who ever has to work on the lock... :curse: I can do the "back out the screw a turn or two and tap it to knock the cock loose" on one of my locks, but would not DREAM of attempting this with any production pressed-together lock.

 

[rich pierce]

Chris, good point. Most original flintlocks I have been privileged to study have had a tapered shaft and hole in the cock base just as you suggest. The oldest one I have handled was remarkably tapered- must have been at least 10 degrees.

 

[guncobbler]

I have the same problem with an L&R lock. Stopped whacking it when it seemed too violent. Gonna leave it on til I really need to get it off. GC

 

[MikeChapin]

I've had several stubborn hammers over the years. When nothing else worked I have used wedges to take it off. As a last resort I have tapped in small screw drivers between the hammer and the plate. This is a slow process and you have to work all the way around the hammer. It will eventually work the hammer off. Them major problem with this method is that you will mark the plate and have to go back and take them out.

I only do this enough to get some clearance between the hammer and the plate. I then have a hammer extractor I made years ago. I got the idea from the tool that removes the lead from the battery post on a car. This one has three arms with ears on them that fit underneigth the hammer. The screw snuggs up against the tumbler. Once I get it set up, I turn the screw and press the hammer off.

 

[roundball]

I've had several stubborn hammers over the years. When nothing else worked I have used wedges to take it off. As a last resort I have tapped in small screw drivers between the hammer and the plate. This is a slow process and you have to work all the way around the hammer. It will eventually work the hammer off. Them major problem with this method is that you will mark the plate and have to go back and take them out.

I only do this enough to get some clearance between the hammer and the plate. I then have a hammer extractor I made years ago. I got the idea from the tool that removes the lead from the battery post on a car. This one has three arms with ears on them that fit underneigth the hammer. The screw snuggs up against the tumbler. Once I get it set up, I turn the screw and press the hammer off.

FWIW, all of mine are mass produced TC Hawkens and the tumbler shafts are square all around...however, TC apparently has the dimensions right as all it ever takes is a very light tap or two with a small hammer & punch, and the tumble drops right out.

 

[Stophel]

I've seen somewhere (MAYBE R.E. Davis) that there is a wedging gizmo that you can use to safely pop a tight cock off of a tumbler/plate....

 

[crockett]

One word of advise. You probably smoothed out what was causing the jam. I know the impulse is to file away but go light. Maybe sandpaper backed by metal is enough.