Anyone had main charge go off while using ramrod ?

[pharmvet]

I posted some safety questions on another thread. I thank you all for your comments. Here is another question I failed to ask.

Has anyone had the main powder charge discharge while seating a (ball/shot) with your ramrod. I think about this every time I seat my ball. I especially think about it because of the temptation to put my hand over the top of the ramrod to complete the ball seating. It seems that this shouldn't be done but then again even if you are holding the ramrod in your hand rather than your hand being on top of it some serious damage is going to ensue. What are your thoughts on this. thanks in advance

 

[musketman]

Has anyone had the main powder charge discharge while seating a (ball/shot) with your ramrod. I think about this every time I seat my ball.

Not I, but if the main charge was to go off due to a smoldering ember left in the breech, it should do off long before the ramrod is used to seat the ball...

In other words, when the next charge is dumped into the barrel... (Never pour powder from the can or horn/flask directly into the barrel, always use a separate measure)

It is better to have 70 grains go off and burn your fingers that to have 7000 grains go off and loose your life...

Will the powder go off from compression?

I doubt that we (humanly speaking) can generate enough pressure with the ramrod to set the powder off without deforming the lead ball/bullet...

Don't beat the projectile to death making sure it's seated, run it down to the powder and a light few taps on the ramrod to slightly crunch the powder...

A trick is to mark your ramrod with a marker/tape/scratch to show the level of a properly seated ball, when loading, check the ramrod to see if the load is at the preset mark and all is well...

I would say the odds of breaking a wooden ramrod and running it through our hand is greater than shooting our hand while loading...

I am not saying this can't happen, nooooo, there are freak accidents where the hammer get's bumped off the half cock position and the flint hits the frizzen then that one magic spark finds it's way into the touchhole...

Tip: when loading, leave the frizzen open on flintlocks, this way, if the hammer falls the flint has nothing to hit...

Better yet, leave the frizzen open and the hammer down... :thumbsup:

I should add, don't be scared, just use common sense and respect the gun, it's not a toy, it can kill as easy as any other gun out there...

 

[Tumblernotch]

Well, I'm not saying that it's impossible, but in 30 years of shooting I've never seen or heard of that happening with shoulder fired weapons. It certainly has happened with ML cannon with disastrous results.

I have seen it happen when powder was poured into a hot, dirty musket at reenactments when embers remained in the bore after shooting a lot of blanks. A fellow in our unit who was noted for his dirty musket had a round cook off as he dumped the contents of a cartridge down the barrel. Lucky for him, he didn't have his face near the muzzle. As it was, he got some powder burns on his hand and the manure scared out of him, not to mention the men in the adjacent files. As pre-battle inspections got more strict, these things became more scarce.

To be on the safe side, if you're firing a percussion weapon, you should keep the hammer down on the nipple while loading. That will exclude any air from entering the barrel at the breech, much like "thumbing the vent" on a cannon. On a flintlock, about all you can do is stick a sharpened match or toothpick in the touchhole. However, under normal conditions just waiting a minute or two before reloading should be enough. When a cook-off rarely occurs, it's when a musket is being loaded and fired as fast as possible and usually with blanks. Also when you're target shooting, if you swab between shots, that will take care of any hot clinkers that may be in the barrel.

One thing I'd like to mention about leaving the hammer down when loading a percussion gun. If you are loading a very tight bullet, leaving the hammer down may make it harder to seat the ball because of air pressure and you may even think that the ball is seated when it's not. You need to be sure and a "loaded" mark on your ramrod will help.

But really, if you're firing live rounds and taking your time you shouldn't have any problem. Most likely if you were to have a cook-off, it will be when you charge the gun with powder, not when ramming. It's still a good idea to keep your hand to the side of the rod just to be safe. I still catch myself putting mine on top from time to time. I feel like I've forgotten something, but maybe it'll come to me. Sorry this was so long winded, but I hope it answers your question.
:m2c: :thumbsup:

Musketman you mentioned what I forgot. Don't load straight out of a can, horn or flask! Thanks! ::

 

[OTHERN]

Muzzle Blasts had an article a few months ago about Dieseling as it is called. Some people had heard about it happening but NO one had ever seen it. They tried to do it every way possible and had a number of engineers run the formulas and basically decided it couldn't be done. This doesn't rule out the possibility that as you seat the ball there may be an ember that is made more alive by the air going past and heats up enough again to set off the charge. Hope this helps.

Othern

 

I have heard of it happening, one guy I talked to had it happen and fortunately all he got was hand scrapes/burns, a miracle, as he was loading a rd ball. His hand opened up as the charge went off, apparently. Never put your palm on top the ramrod. Keep your face/body away from the bore. Never load directly from the horn or can. I generally [when possible] swab between shots with a damp spit patch which helps kill sparks. I know one cannoneer with only a finger left on his hand from a charge prematurely going off during a CW reenactment. And they swab between rounds. In the old days people blew down the bore between shots, but that is not considered safe anymore and I heard somewhere that a fellow shot himself doing that (from a hangfire?). Be careful.

 

[roundball]

I posted some safety questions on another thread. I thank you all for your comments. Here is another question I failed to ask.

Has anyone had the main powder charge discharge while seating a (ball/shot) with your ramrod. I think about this every time I seat my ball. I especially think about it because of the temptation to put my hand over the top of the ramrod to complete the ball seating. It seems that this shouldn't be done but then again even if you are holding the ramrod in your hand rather than your hand being on top of it some serious damage is going to ensue. What are your thoughts on this. thanks in advance

I have seen cautionary posts about sparks, embers, loads cooking off, etc, and as a result am very cautious about keeping my face away from the muzzle when reloading.

And I reload extremely fast, without wiping between shots when I'm running through a range session...I take 40 premeasured charges with me in 35mm film canisters, have 40 balls and 40 patches in a small box and begin.

I set the rifle down on it's butt leaning against the bench, pop open a film canister, and pour the next charge of Goex downbore seconds after sitting the rifle down.

While I'm doing this smoke is still billowing up out of the muzzle, and the charge of Goex hitting the breech forces smoke out of the vent.

The rifle leans against the bench angled away from me and I never get my face/head over the muzzle while doing this.

Once the powder has dropped into the breech indicated by smoke blowing out of the vent, if an unscheduled ignition doesn't occur now then I highly doubt that it will.

Then it's another several seconds until I get my fingers over the muzzle while centering a patch and ball, and then reach for my short starter.

By this time the Goex has been downbore at least 10-15 seconds and I believe if it was going to light it would have done so by then...can't imagine any Goex blackpowder sitting in a bore on some sort of residual ember that could possibly be hot enough to ignite it, taking longer than 15 seconds to do so.

Never-the-less, I still won't get my head over the muzzle under any circumstances, won't blow down a bore, etc....but even in my aggressive reloading scenario that I've done most Saturdays years round for 3.5yrs, I've never had even a hint of something like that happening.

So by the time my hand gets over the muzzle on a short starter, then a range rod, I think the 'window of opportunity' for that sort of accidental discharge has passed.

But...even at that...I intentionally continue to choose & use short starters and rangerods with large round wooden balls on top in the hopes that their size and shape might help slide/push my hand/fingers off out of the way of the main blast in the event of any type of accidental discharge.

Now, for the record, from a pure theoretical safety point of view, I can't disagree that running a damp patch downbore after every shot might reduce the odds of an AD...but to be honest, for those using rifles with a patent breech, even that would still leave the area down deep in a patent breech untouched.

No question we always need to be careful...just have to decide where and how to draw the line I guess

 

[Kevin M]

I always cringe when I see someone slamming their ramrod down on top of their load. I guess it makes me think of the guy that was packing explosives with a metal pole and the dynamite being used went off and the pole ended up lodged in the guys head. I have never heard of this happening with a muzzleloader, but it just seems common sense not to pound on a charge of explosive powder.

 

[sherpadoug]

There is a nearby group of reenactors, of dubious safety habits, who routinely use their rammers on the bare powder when firing blanks. Their claim is that it makes the report louder and sharper. They say it has never caused a problem. If crushing the powder between a steel barrel and a steel rammer doesn't set it off, then you should be safe with some wadding and a ball in between.
And I think I have heard the some people use mallets to seat the bullets in rifles. Maybe we should ask the next forum down?

 

[Kevin M]

I see your point. I am of the school where I can put the ball in the barrel without a short starter. I just don't think when being chased through the woods I would have time to get out the mallet and pound the ball down in the bore. However even then I bet they had guys who did it with target rifles.

 

[Bear Rider]

A reply to Sherpa Doug specifically, and to others.

I used to shoot at Chabot Gun Club, east of Oakland, back in the late 80's and early 90's. Some time before I started shooting with them, they had a shooter at a match who was pounding his loads down with a steel ramrod and tip. The gun discharged, and the ramrod made a nice neat hole -- in the roof.

IIRC, there was an incident at Brushy Creek Rendezvous while during that period, where an experienced shooter had a discharge while seating a load. I don't remember the details, but I believe that it did a pretty good job on his hand.

Those are the only instance of discharge while ramming that I am aware of. I've seen more problems from other sources, such as a horn left uncapped on the bench beneath an underhammer (I was about three benches down from that one). A friend of mine had his capper ignited by his neighbor's flintlock, and the all the caps went up in a chain reaction. The proximity of the explosion to his head and the shrapnel from the brass capper created injuries extensive enough to require a life flight.

It pays to look at the details with a jaundiced eye!

 

[Keith]

I met a man who had lost a finger, just the first digit IIRC. He had a gun go off while loading it. He did not have an explanation for why the gun fired when it did. I wasn't there so I don't know what happened. I can only speculate what happened, but something did cause the gun to fire.

 

[benvenuto]

It is better to have 70 grains go off and burn your fingers that to have 7000 grains go off and loose your life...

I'll add to that,
1) check your springs on the flask to make sure the valve closes positively ALL the time. a 50 cent spring is cheaper than an eye or hand

2) never fill your horn or flask to capacity unless its a small one. The rule at our club is no more than 1/2 a lb or 200 grams.

3) have a weak spot in the flask or horn that will bow out in case of explosion, like the plug on gas cylinders

I was at the range when a flask blew once (on a bench thank god) and it was a miracle nobody got anything more than minor flash burns

 

[JeffS]

A guy in our club had one go off as he was hammering on a ramrod. I was not there, and don't know many specifics. What I am told is that the hammer went about 100feet in the air, and the guy's arm was numb for while. No major injuries. His new club name was "Sky Hammer". Wish I knew more about it, pretty scary.

Jeff

 

[2172]

I've been shooting muzzleloaders for a little more than 30 years, and have never seen, or heard of a gun going off during loading. Like Roundball, I use a really large wooden ball as the end of my rod. While I can start a ball with my short starter without it, I find using a mallet easier on my hands. I don't load as fast as RB, and I also wet patch clean after about every 5 shots..I do use a cut-at-the-muzzle patch heavily lubed with Bore Butter...
At the next session of my club, I'll ask around and see if anyone has heard of, or seen a during-loading cookoff..Hank

 

[shmrck1]

I think i will just continue to at least run a lubed patch
down the barrel between shots when at the range as i have
in the past. Now i have another reason to do so. I have
always done so because that is the way my mentor taught
me to do it while at the range. :imo: :results:
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[LRB]

One very simple thing that muzzleloaders used to be told to do, was to blow a few breaths down the bore before reloading. If there are any latent embers left, this causes them to burn out, and at the same time softens the fouling, which makes the next load easier to push down. It also lets you know if the vent is open. That is NOT allowed anymore at any organized ML range that I know of, but it is something that I always do, and have been doing for the last thirty years. For a time I shot with a guy that had a discharge as he loaded, and the ball and ramrod went through his hand. Scar is not too bad, but he has no feeling in it since. He gets his jollies on occasion by picking up red hot coals to light his pipe and fascinating any bystanders. I have seen him do it, and the first time is a shocker. Oh, since the accident, he also blows down his bore before reloading.
I would caution that you NEVER, EVER, blow down the bore after the charge is poured. That could make you seriously DEAD, null, and void. Your gag reflex will not even slow the blast down and your lungs will explode. If you are talking or otherwise preoccupied, and are not sure if you charged it with powder, DON'T DO IT!

 

[musketman]

I would caution that you NEVER, EVER, blow down the bore after the charge is poured.

That's a new one...

I agree, don't do it...

 

[Bear Rider]

I would caution that you NEVER, EVER, blow down the bore after the charge is poured. That could make you seriously DEAD, null, and void. Your gag reflex will not even slow the blast down and your lungs will explode. If you are talking or otherwise preoccupied, and are not sure if you charged it with powder, DON'T DO IT!

Which is why you are no longer allowed to blow down the bore. It's much safer to run a damp patch down the bore.

 

[wwfeatherston]

A variation on blowing down the bore, that I was told of, is to put a drinking straw over the nipple and blow on that. The head has got to be away from the muzzle, doing it that way!

 

[Rabbit]

I was unlucky enough to see a guys flintlock go off just as he was seating the ball. The 3/8 fiberglass ramrod went thru his hand, then thru his upper arm and then thru the roof. The .50 rb went thru his hand and ended up on the backside of his wrist. He did survive and after many months of PT was alright. WHat happened? Well after lots of thought it seems the frizzen must have been closed and the hammer back. It was an older lock (late 60's, early 70's vintage) and wasn't the highest quality. Half cock on that thing was as almost as far as my SIler full cock. Six months earlier I saw a lady have a T/C pistol go off. Had cleaned the gun and forgot to snap the last cap off after snapping caps on the cleaned gun. She didn't get hurt bad. Slight cut/burn in palm of hand from ball starter.