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Are all Double wedge Hawken's huge?

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People need to remember that in the 1830s-40s "squirrel rifles" in calibers under 36 often weighed over 10 pounds.

Amen, Bro.
I have handled a number of those and am always amazed at the weight. Folks 'back then' were smaller and not always well nourished. I really wonder why they were built like that. (I have heard several explanations but still wonder)
As for weight, if you like it, enjoy while you can. Stuff happens in life. My old shoulders can no longer hold a heavy rifle. I even had to sell one of my modern guns because shooting at my toes was no fun.
 
New guy with first reply. I've got a custom built .54 Colerain barreled mountain rifle that one of my friends refers to as a "horse rifle" cuz you need a horse to carry it. It weighs a schosche over 10lbs and is a joy to shoot off a bench. It was built with two wedges and heavily stocked in a beautiful walnut with all iron furniture. I picked up a little Lyman GP rifle in the same caliber for a song from a guy that used it once to deer hunt and parked it. I stuck a set of Lyman adjustable target sights with hooded aperature and have been doing real well in competition with it. I have finally dialed in my target load and it seems to deliver the best group at ranges normally used of 90gr. FF under a .535 cast ball of 234.0-234.5gr and .015 Teflon patch, RWS caps. Shot my first 50FFFF last week at 50 yards with that combination from the bench. I'm enjoying the colder weather since theres more clothing to soak up the recoil.
 
Are all Double wedge Hawken's huge?
Depends.

I have a GRRW Hawken with a 1" x 32" barrel in .50 caliber. It weighs less than 9 lbs. They used an underrib that was thinner than the typical 1/4" rib--more like 0.20". It also has a 3/8" ramrod. That combination makes for a very slim forearm that continues on into the lock area and wrist. Far from a huge Hawken. This is nice rifle to carry around in the Colorado mountains. It's no 6 lb fowler, but it works as a mountain rifle.

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On the huge side, I have a .54 caliber, 1-1/8" x 33" barreled GRRW Hawken that was patterned after Bridger's rifle in the Montana Historical Society museum. This rifle weighs over 12 lbs. It's ok for bench shooting and some offhand shooting and also works for hunting from a stand or blind, but I wouldn't want to carry it in the mountains.

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On the subject of loads, back in the 70's, some folks liked to load up for big game such as elk and buffalo. In the March 1972 issue of MUZZLEBLASTS, Doc White published an article about Carl Walker working up some hunting loads for elk. He was using a .60 caliber Kentucky rifle he had built with a 1-1/16" Bauska barrel. The published starting load was 140 grs of FFG with a chronograph velocity of 1850 fps. He worked up to 308 grs of FFG for 2250 fps. Carl's conclusion was that any more than 70% of ball weight or 224 grs of FFG at 2222 fps didn't gain enough velocity for the punishment! They preferred heavy rifles for obvious reasons.

The GRRW crew used to make regular buffalo hunts in Nebraska. Doc published an article about one of these hunts in the January-February 1977 issue of MUZZLELOADER magazine. For the hunt they used flintlock full stock Hawken rilfes and a Leman Trade Rifle in .50, .54, and .58 calibers from GRRW. The .50 was loaded with 110 grs, the .54's used 150 grs, and the .58's with about 200 grs of powder. These stout loads called for heavy rifles.

On this hunt, Doc wrote about taking two mature bulls with lung shots. He states that on one bull the "bullet had hit between the ribs and despite a light load of 110 grains of powder under a 180 grain .50 caliber ball, had penetrated through the bull's lungs, torn up some vessels coming from the heart and had exited on the opposite side." He further stated that he "was convinced by this experience that a lung shot from a muzzleloading rifle on an animal as large as a buffalo is a merciful and decent way of killing the animals and cannot be scoffed at."
 
amen brother. I shoot 70 3f in a .50 and have always shot through and through deer. On paper that in no way compares to a 30-30 with a 180 grain bullet. Yet it drops em just fine.The old timers often hunted with light loads,and loaded for bear at times.Fact is you just dont get a lot of advantage for extra bang. A big ball at 1.5-2 times the speed of sound will slow to about the same speed as a 1000-1200 fps at 100 yards
 
The Hawken that I built w/ a straight 1" bbl x 34" in .54 cal. weighs approx. 9# and is comfortable to carry all day when elk hunting. The load is 120 grs 3F w/ a .535 PRB and the "kick" is not punishing to me. Sensitivity to recoil varies greatly w/ the individual and having sighted in rifles at our club's "deer clinic", it's apparent that many hunters flinch when shooting....caused by recoil.

Built a Stith S. Hawken for a customer w/ a 1"-7/8" tapered 36" bbl in .54 cal and this rifle weighs in at something over 8# and is comfortable to shoot w/ 100 grs 3F....anyways for him. This rifle is a "dream" to carry all day long in the mountains when elk hunting.

As was said....I wouldn't hunt w/ a 12# rifle no matter how it balances....just too much to carry when elk hunting. If on a deer stand, that's another story....even heavier rifles wouldn't be objectionable.

The 12# Hawkens used by the "mountain men" were carried on horseback.....if they had to walk, I doubt this weight would have been very popular.....Fred
 

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