Asking for a friend... Rusty bore issue?

[poker]

Regardless of what cleaner you go with; pick up one of these, it looks like a brillo pad but (they say) wont hurt any bluing but Will remove rust.
Now it's not going to 'sand' the barrel but somehow it Does scrap the rust off.
I have used it to recover two barrels now that came to me with soarly rusted barrels, one was pretty bad.
Expect to use some elbow grease, but I didn't have to remove the plug.

I cut a piece and wrap it on a suitable down using twist wire, then just scrub away, adding some cleaner, the oil

https://www.big45metalcleaner.com/

If you turn any of the softer grades of stainless steel in your lathe, or know machinists who do, just take and bag up some. It accumulates in the pan pretty fast. It works pretty decent to scrub light rust off the outside of a barrel, but so does plain old aluminum foil. The key is to be softer than the bluing but harder than the rust. For in the bore Id prefer a scotchbrite pad wrapped on a jag

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

Rusty Bore was my NASCAR name.

 

[Steve 1]

Rusty Bore was my NASCAR name

Rusty Bore was my NASCAR name.

Hello folks,

I posted a request for advice on how to recover a friends rusty 54 cal TC New Englander, that was a year ago!
Back surgery, PT!, old age, and all the usual distractions aside, I can finally report some progress..!

Two weeks ago, we finally got the rifle in my shop. Externally it looks nice, nice bluing, wood is okay etc.
I have an el-cheapo Amazon bore-scope… well almost… sadly the bore was a mess.
There was surface rust on the bore, but oddly, that varied on about a 4-5” basis… rusty, not bad, rusty etc.
The rust was bad, surface pitting, and patchy erosion and pitting of the lands…

Many of you recommended various means of rust removal, from 0000 wool to Evaporust.
After removing the hooked barrel / breech… I considered removing the breech. I tried, a lot!
It’s on there tight, despite my attempts to remove it.

The rust runs from the patent breeches to the muzzle… grooves and lands, but patchy, sadly quite deep, 2-3 thou?h
We decided that as it shot 24” “groups” at 50 yds, anything was better than status quo.

So began a long and tedious day of cleaning, lots of BP residue… previous owner likely put away dirty…

I built a sort of mandrill with Nylatron guides to protect what was left of the bore, then proceeded to use scotchbrite in ever finer grades…
I used a power drill on slow… and doused the Scotchbrite with Kroil… Slowly pushing and pulling, change the scotchbrite, add Kroil.
Swab barrel, use bore scope, rinse and repeat… From rough green to 2000 grit equivalent grey, for many hours.

After some three hours, and a good cleaning, I had removed 95% of the surface rust, with just a bit left in the roots of the lands…
I then moved to using 0000 steel wool, on slow with a power drill. I know many will scream! The bore was dead, this was a last hope.

Another hour of slow rpms, 0000 wool, then adding Flitz metal polish… a cleaning, I had a bore with bright lands, okay grooves, and the repetitive 4-5” but rust free pitting.
I then tried longitudinal bore wipes with 300 grit carbide paste… to remove any sharp land / groove edge roughness. Don’t want cut patches!

Again, more cleaning and another polish with Flitz… I think it’s as good as it will get.

My neighbour has a 100 yard range, a good neighbour to have! So we shot the rifle, PRB, 0.530, 223 gr, with a 0.015 wad, and Bore butter to season the bore.
Load was 70 grains Goex 2Fg… loading was fairly easy, no rough spots in the bore to hesitate the ramming motion. Unlike before this work…

The results were encouraging, 70grs, 2Fg, PRB 223 gr, 0.530 ball, at 50 yds, 3” triangle for three shots, off of a bag rest, irons…
Repeat for 100 yds, and three shots in 7”, centering on the 50 yard shots! Minute of Bambi!
Serendipitously, testing at 50 /100 yds showed same impact… Some examination of ballistics on the Ballistics Pro app, showed I had “somehow” set the rifles zero to 125 yds..
Or + 3” at 50 and 100yds! I’ll take that! That much better than missing a barn from the inside!

Next week, we test with LEE 54 cal, 300gr REAL conical, a mix of Alox, SPG, and Borebutter lubes. I cast pure lead, and 20:1 and added various lubes…
A Uk interior ballistics app, modeling the bore volume, 100 gr charge weight 2Fg, 54 cal, barrel 26” and a REAL 54cal 300gr projectile, give 1700fps
The BC of the REAL, doubles the energy over a PRB at 100 yds, and 4x at 200!

If the conical doesn’t work… another rabbit hole… why? , Plan B is PRB at 80 grains of FFg, more than enough.

Apologies for the hiatus… hopefully more and better results soon!

Best,

Steve 1
Florence, Montana.,

 

[The Miner '49er]

A few hundred times, did you alternate arms? A BP workout!

I have an odd 13 gauge ML BP shotgun, a tight 12…Damascus stubb, fluted barrels, possibly Scandinavian, I had to remove 150 years of ‘crud”… Scotchbrite, 0000 wire wool, and Kroil helped…
It’s rough, but goes bang when needed.

Cheers!

Steve1

I apologize for straying off topic a little but while reading what I have attached I remembered Steve1's comment about a few hundred strokes being quite a workout. Imagine how many guys and how many hours it took to square the muzzle on this gun. I'd sure love to see one of those files! Info is from American Civil War Homepage.

 

[Steve 1]

I've heard of squirrel rifles, deer rifles, those must be HUGE parrots!
My son has a small green eclectus, but 300lbs, yikes!

 

[The Miner '49er]

I've heard of squirrel rifles, deer rifles, those must be HUGE parrots!
My son has a small green eclectus, but 300lbs, yikes!

Good one! I guess since the CW global warming or some such thing has caused the reduction in the size of those parrots.

 

[Steve 1]

As I mentioned, Reggie ( the parrot ) is green, maybe he's not ripe yet?....

 

[The Miner '49er]

As I mentioned, Reggie ( the parrot ) is green, maybe he's not ripe yet?....

Well now I wonder if there were tail gunners on those parrots shooting at the Yanks. Now I'm picturing Slim Pickens straddling the bomb in Dr. Strangelove! Big apology to all for what I did to this serious discussion !

 

[WonkyEye]

I had rough loading issues a few inches behind the bore, and a couple inches above the breech plug. Like you, I used a cheap bore snake and saw how bad it was. Over the course of a month I tried progressively more aggressive approaches, followed by range trips.

I tried degreasing and scrubbing thoroughly, followed by filling with evaporust. That cleaned out the puts but didn't smooth it at all. I tried green scrubbie pads cut into strips and laid across the jag in an x pattern to scrub, but it wasn't aggressive enough. Then I tried a patch over a jag with tufts of 0000 steel wool laid in an x pattern. It helped a little, less tearing of patches, but the rough areas were still there.

I made a jig with a 10/32 screw that fit my steel range rods, washers, a nut and a lead ball that I drilled in the center to fit over the screw. I marked where the ball lines up with a specific land and started forming the ball to the bore, I'd make a pass, tighten the nut 1/4 turn to squish it, and make another pass. Always with the same spot on the ball aligned to he same land. When I had a nice impression of the rifling I started using diamond lapping paste. I started with 1000 grit because I was afraid to cause damage, but 100 passes it did very little. And a range trip confirmed not much happened. I progressed down to 400 grit and started to notice improvement. The bore looked better with the scope, it loaded easier, the patches weren't cut, and it got more accurate and easier to clean. Well worth the effort, but all in all I probably shoved that lead slug down the bore 1000 times.

The pic shows the parts, and the full assembly on the end of the range rod. Just sandwich a lead ball between the washers. I think I had to turn down the washers too. Just chuck it in a drill press and tighten the nut to hold the washers tight. A file or stone can grind them down pretty quickly.

Good luck

 

[The Miner '49er]

That was a well thought out solution and your diy tool looks great. Don't you just love it when your idea works?!

 

[Rebel bull]

just a thought but I wonder how a lead concrete anchor would work ? the 2 piece ones where the bottom is tapered and the outside expands to fit the hole. just install the proper screw and fit it to your ramrod with a muzzle gard coat with paste scrub, tighten. and repeat

 

[Steve 1]

I had rough loading issues a few inches behind the bore, and a couple inches above the breech plug. Like you, I used a cheap bore snake and saw how bad it was. Over the course of a month I tried progressively more aggressive approaches, followed by range trips.

I tried degreasing and scrubbing thoroughly, followed by filling with evaporust. That cleaned out the puts but didn't smooth it at all. I tried green scrubbie pads cut into strips and laid across the jag in an x pattern to scrub, but it wasn't aggressive enough. Then I tried a patch over a jag with tufts of 0000 steel wool laid in an x pattern. It helped a little, less tearing of patches, but the rough areas were still there.

I made a jig with a 10/32 screw that fit my steel range rods, washers, a nut and a lead ball that I drilled in the center to fit over the screw. I marked where the ball lines up with a specific land and started forming the ball to the bore, I'd make a pass, tighten the nut 1/4 turn to squish it, and make another pass. Always with the same spot on the ball aligned to he same land. When I had a nice impression of the rifling I started using diamond lapping paste. I started with 1000 grit because I was afraid to cause damage, but 100 passes it did very little. And a range trip confirmed not much happened. I progressed down to 400 grit and started to notice improvement. The bore looked better with the scope, it loaded easier, the patches weren't cut, and it got more accurate and easier to clean. Well worth the effort, but all in all I probably shoved that lead slug down the bore 1000 times.

The pic shows the parts, and the full assembly on the end of the range rod. Just sandwich a lead ball between the washers. I think I had to turn down the washers too. Just chuck it in a drill press and tighten the nut to hold the washers tight. A file or stone can grind them down pretty quickly.

Good

That was a well thought out solution and your diy tool looks great. Don't you just love it when your idea works?!

Hi Folks:

On the subject of bore polishing and pitting... I hate to ask, there are some folks who chose barrels with holes at both ends, (rumours abound!) they sometimes resort to fire lapping, either to remove a tight spot, or smooth dings or sharp rifling... Has anyone tried something like that? A REAL bullet in backwards... with some fine lapping compound? These odd folks use 5 shots of increasingly finer grit pressure rolled onto their little skinny projectiles.
I have seen pictures of before and after... but..

I like the idea of the adjustable lead lap, I had toyed with casting a Cerosafe version, but was worried about it becoming stuff on the rust... The breech on these TC New Englanders appears to have been tightened, and then the final breech / barrel contour ground! It's on there tight! That would be a pain to extract a stuck lap.

Happy Thanksgiving to all, how many used a ML on their turkey!

Steve 1 MT


P.S. Attached is a frame from a long video examination of the bore.... this is 6" from the breech. The white splotches are the rust affected areas... this is before surgery.

 

[Okie Hog]

i bought a .54 New Englander off Evil Bay. Gun had trashed bore. After two applications of Evapo Rust and hours of scrubbing with green scratchy pads and valve grinding compound the pits were too deep. Accuracy was not there.

Packed the barrel of to Mr. Hoyt who re-bored it to .58 caliber with 1/66" rifling with rounded grooves.

Using a Hornady .570 round ball, a drill cloth patch, boot dressing lube and 90 grains of Shooters World powder; the ball holes sometimes overlap at 50 yards. At 78 yards the five shot group can be covered with a quarter.

 

[Steve 1]

i bought a .54 New Englander off Evil Bay. Gun had trashed bore. After two applications of Evapo Rust and hours of scrubbing with green scratchy pads and valve grinding compound the pits were too deep. Accuracy was not there.

Packed the barrel of to Mr. Hoyt who re-bored it to .58 caliber with 1/66" rifling with rounded grooves.

Using a Hornady .570 round ball, a drill cloth patch, boot dressing lube and 90 grains of Shooters World powder; the ball holes sometimes overlap at 50 yards. At 78 yards the five shot group can be covered with a quarter.

Wow! We’re going to try REAL bullet next week, PRBs as 50 yds were 3-4”. Yours are 3/4”! I saw a similar thread running about Mr Hoyt, depending how this things works out, my friend may give him a call! He feels okay with it this season for PRB use, minute of Bambi, but an inch is tantalizing.

Cheers! S1

 

[Okie Hog]

ours are 3/4”! I

Yeah, i cheated a little. The rifle was scoped. A machinist friend made a Picatinny rail that i soldered on the barrel.

 

[Steve 1]

Yeah, i cheated a little. The rifle was scoped. A machinist friend made a Picatinny rail that i soldered on the barrel.

Thank God no RedDot, nor suppressor! Testing accuracy is a sum of variables, rifle, bore condition, powder, ball / conical, lube, cap of flint… 2F or 3F etc…
You should explore but limit any one time variables to just ONE. I see the use of a scope as fine, if needed. I know of a local MT shooter who is seriously visually impaired,
He uses a 50 cal flinter with a 24x scope, just to enable him to see his target. That to me is fine…he has no other options.

I often test various guns with a lead sled… it removes me as a variable, then I have to face reality as to why I jump from 1 MOA, to 3… must be wind, weather, sunspots, a bad lunch…
I can’t be me!

Cheers! S1 MT.