Austin Halleck "Hawken" 50 cal Flint problem

[RonRC]

I purchased an Austin Halleck half-stock 50 cal flintlock from the classified, here some time ago. Nice rifle, great condition.
Yesterday, I took it to the range. I fired about 4 shots with 70 gr powder, 490 ball, 0.015 lubed patch (commercial), 3F in the rifle, 4F in the pan. Accuracy was fine at 50 yds. The lock was a little slow compared to other flints I have fired.
I ran a damp patch, then a dry patch down the bore.
The next shot was fine as well.
The next attempt, no spark.
Again, no spark.
I dry wiped the flint and frizzen. There was a flash in the pan, but the no shot.
Scraped some carbon of the bottom of the edge of the flint. Fired, no flash.
I changed flints.
Tried again, good flash, no shot.
I put a wire I carry through the flash hole and there was some resistance. Push it through as far as it would go.
Primed, fired, flash but no shot.
Put the wire through again, trying to clear any clogging of the flash hole. Flash, no shot.
I repeated this several times. I really didn't want to put the rifle in the car with powder and ball inside.
I tried to extract the ball with a screw extractor attachment, but all that came out were pieces of lead on the screw.
I muttered comments such as "Gosh darn it;" "Gee whiz." :grin:
I decided to try a hair-brained scheme. I put some 4F in the flash hole (just a little bit) and used the copper wire to push it in behind the ball. Why? I don't know, I said it was hairbrained. :wink: I just thought that the 4F might go off more easily.
Prime, pull the trigger and BANG. The ball even hit the target!
Now the question. What the heck happened?
Here is the barrel and lock of the rifle:

Ron

 

[bpd303]

I don't know what type breech the Austin Halleck has, but it sounds like you may have pushed fouling into the breech, blocking the powder from getting to the flash hole. Your main charge powder is real black...right.

If the recoil was rather mild when it went off, you may have dry balled and the priming powder shot the ball out.

 

[RonRC]

I was almost certain that I had added the powder, although I did question that when I was having the problem.
Two pieces of evidence that I did, indeed, add powder are:
1. The amount of 4F I put into the flash hole was very tiny. I put less than what I use to prime and shoved in only a few grains of that. I blew off the rest. It was only an amount that one push of the wire into the hole would deliver.
2. The ball hit the target paper at 50 yds.
Still, I can't discount anything.
Pushing the fouling in certainly is a possibility. It was difficult to put the wire in the flash hole at first, but became easier after each poke.

Ron

 

[Alden]

Know you think of yourself as a noobie but this was a rare and highly technical problem Ron.

In layman's terms the powder wasn't igniting. Wet? Blocked!? Ya done good!

And fear not -- someone will be along any moment to tell you what drill-bit size to use.

Nice gun BTW.

 

[RonRC]

I guess I should try to see if a 1/16 drill bit fits in the flash hole. I think that is what I read here somewhere.

Ron

 

[Alden]

I'm hoping you don't really have to drill our the touchole...

 

[gwalker]

Did you wipe the bore preserver out well before loading your rifle for the first time after it had been sitting idle at your home? The problem may be as simple as not wiping your bore clear of any grease/oil before beginning any shooting session. If you didn't clear the bore of this grease/oil, the first two shots you took may have built up an inordinately amount of fouling in the breech end of your barrel. This could not only plug the touch hole (especially if the touch hole sits on top of the breech plug face inside the barrel) but also the build-up may have prevented the gun powder on your third shot from even reaching the touch hole when loading. Its almost akin to sometimes having the fouling in the breech end building up during a shooting session, such that it also slowly precludes the powder from reaching the touch hole with the result being slow ignition of the main charge. Periodically, run a scraper attached to your ramrod, or range rod, and scrape the breech end (turn the rifle upside down to dump it out). Regarding those times the pan did not flash, it may be something as simple as keeping your flint sharp. I often check mine during a shooting session by carefully running my finger along the edge to check for the flint dulling.

 

[RonRC]

I did not dry wipe the bore before shooting.
This was the first time for me to shoot it since it arrived. I removed the lock and thoroughly cleaned and applied anti-corrosion and lube to the metal and polished the wood. At the end of the cleaning I ran a single dry patch down the bore. Perhaps that left a residual lube in the barrel.

The flint that came with the rifle was dull. After the first few shots, there wasn't a spark to be found. There was significant carbon buildup on the bottom of the flint. I chipped that off but still didn't get a spark. I carry several spare flints and replaced the original.

I am afraid that after several failed attempts to shoot, the fellow sharing the shooting house learned many new vocabulary words, or at least new combinations of ones he already knew. :shocked2:
Ron

 

[azmntman]

If ya didn't clean the barrel at ALL before the first shots theres your problem...woulda been full of ugly stuff that created the blockage. If ya cleaned it REAL good afterwards you should not have this issue again! New barrels are loaded up with grease to store before shipping to the new owner.

 

[azmntman]

Re-read OP and see it was used. So again if no cleaning bore before shooting you could have blasted a bit of petro product (who knows what previous owner protected with) and created a goo. Again if ya did a real good job of clean up and wipe the bore first next time you will probably have more fun and not use such bad language! :rotf:

 

[RonRC]

As soon as I receive a gun of any kind, I compulsively clean it really well. It was clean when I took it shooting, but like has been said, may have had some residual corrosion protectant and lube in the bore.
I use *Fluid Film as a corrosion protectant (I use other products for a lube). I do a final wipe with a patch after the cleaning, but don't over do it so there is a residual film. Seems like that film might be the problem.
The rifle has a screw-in touch hole plug that sends the spark directly into the breech of the bore, at least as far as I can tell.
I will clean up my language. "Oh, my goodness" is a little harsh. :wink:
Thanks,
Ron

 

[azmntman]

LOL Oh My Goodness....thats exactly what my oldest son says in times like that!!

Good luck!

 

[nwtradegun]

if you use a brass vent pick, place it in the touch hole when you load. it will clear the touch hole and allow a channel to the main charge. this should end the problem. also it does have a hook breech.

 

[Grenadier1758]

If your AH Hawken has a hooked breech, you have a patent breech where the threaded portion of the breech will have a smaller than bore diameter chamber. That chamber is supposed to create a firing chamber for the main charge. It also creates a place for fouling to gather before it plugs the touch hole. Run your ramrod down the barrel and see if the rod stops ahead of the touch hole.

This is one of the times that a brush is useful. use a 0.30 to 0.35" brush that is wrapped with a cleaning patch. Start with the smaller diameter one first. I don't want to have to answer the question of how to remove a stuck brush. This will clean out the patent breech chamber. When you clean out the patent chamber, be sure to run the vent pick through the touch hole.

What you did was get enough of the priming powder in the chamber to set of the main charge.

 

[RonRC]

Thank you, Grenadier1758. I was wondering about the Patent breech issue. I did think that the hooked breech and Patent breech were separate, unrelated characteristics, with the hooked breech simply giving a simple way to remove the barrel.
I removed the lock and unscrewed the plug housing the touch hole. The space in the bore at the level of the touch hole plug seemed pretty large, but I am going to run the rod down the bore and see where it stops to test the idea.
I already have had the "adventure" of extracting a recalcitrant bronze bore brush from a barrel. :cursing: This is not an adventure I would like to repeat. Of course I read all those threads about stuck bore brushes AFTER my experience. I have several, nylon bore brushes that behave themselves when the bristles have to change direction.
Ron

 

[sleeperNY]

The pan location on the side of the barrel leads me to believe that it does NOT have a pat. breech. It looks like about a 1/2" distance from the back of the barrel.

Jim

 

[BrownBear]

I put a wire I carry through the flash hole and there was some resistance. Push it through as far as it would go.

Dunno the breech of the AH from a politician's morals, but that resistance sezz it all for me.

You kinda don't know if the previous owner was doing right by the breech, and a bore light isn't going to show it. There could well be years of hardened crud down there. The condition you describe might well be the reason it was sold.

Bought one myself that behaved that way, but once I went to work with a scraper, there was unbelievable crud pounded in. Once I got it all out and cleaned, the rifle performed flawlessly.

I'd go to work on cleaning that breech before I resorted to any other heroic measures.

 

[mazo kid]

I could be mistaken, but it seems to me the A-H rifle has the hooked breech. Clean the vent hole thoroughly and shine a bright light into it, while looking down the (UNLOADED) bore of the rifle. You should be able to see if you have a patent breech or not.

 

[Grenadier1758]

After looking at your pictures, I agree thar you likely have a breech plug with tang. The next observation is your feeling resistance when you used the pick. That indicates that fouling was present at the breech. With good spark and the pan flashing, then you have fouling at the breech or you have used too much lube and spoiled the powder. That your rifle discharged with fine powder added through the touch hole, suggests that fouling was the culprit for your fail to fire (FTF). I think that scraping the breech face to get rid of all that fouling at the breech is in order.

You should be able to get more than two shots before maintaining your flint. Wipe the flint, the pan and the frizzen with your dry patch to have those areas ready to fire. Look at your flint at half-cock with the frizzen closed. The arc of flint travel should look as if it is scraping the frizzen. This may mean a small strip of leather at the back edge to raise that edge. Bevel down may also improve sparking.

Once you are sure the breech face is clean and you have reliable spark, prepare for some reliable firing of your rifle.