Automatic Transmission Fluid type FA?

[colmoultrie]

I happen to have several quarts of FA type ATF in the garage. This summer has been extremely rainy and humid, and I have had slight rusting in the bores of guns cleaned/ protected with a 50/50 Ballistol/water mix - something that's never happened before.

I've heard of using ATF as a preservative, as it's a synthetic version of the original sperm whale oil. Has anyone used type FA? I know Hanshi likes type F. FA seems at first glance or feel to be similar in color and "feel" to Marvel's Mystery Oil.

(Yes, I know I'll have to run an alcohol or moose-milk-soaked patch down the bore before shooting to get out the nasty petroleum products. If it works, I'm willing to do that.)

 

[dyemaker]

I found that a rubber stopper from a medical test tube works perfectly for my .36 caliber. I just put it in the muzzle and forget about humidity.
Used fluid like that for air tools when we ran out of tool oil at the trailer plant before. Sometimes water gets into airlines. I would come home drenched in the stuff so I wore black tee shirts with a pocket for a chuck key. I dont miss the smell of it.
Someone played a trick on me once by putting the stuff in my line and when it hit the drill it turned much faster. After that I put it in my line on purpose. I dont miss pushing an air drill either.

 

[Birddog6]

Why would you even think of mixing water with Ballistol for a rust inhibitor. :slap: Would you pour 2 quarts of oil in your car engine & 3 quarts of water when you change oil ? :shake:

You use Non-aerosol Balistol straight for the bores after you clean them & get the bore completely dry, and don't mix the Ballistol with Anything. I have used it exclusively for 8-9 years & not a minutes trouble with it. And we are talking about over a hundred rifles, not 2-3-4-5 of them.

As for the Transmission oil, I have pulled many a dipstick on a auto that has sat a while & seen rust on the tran. dipstick & also torn them down & seen them full of rust. No way I would use it as a rust inhibitor unless it was for a very short time & it was all I had.

 

[Bubba45]

I just run a patch with Kroil down the bore then a couple swabs with dry patch and forget about it . Before I shoot swab with dry patch and go for it .

 

[Bob J]

Why would you even think of mixing water with Ballistol for a rust inhibitor. :slap: Would you pour 2 quarts of oil in your car engine & 3 quarts of water when you change oil ? :shake:

You use Non-aerosol Balistol straight for the bores after you clean them & get the bore completely dry, and don't mix the Ballistol with Anything. I have used it exclusively for 8-9 years & not a minutes trouble with it. And we are talking about over a hundred rifles, not 2-3-4-5 of them.

I agree with Birddog6. And have similar positive results with Ballistol.

 

[hanshi]

Colmoultrie, please don't put anything in your bores that contains any amount of water and leave it there. Straight rust preventatives only!
Type "F" trans fluid is great stuff for the exterior metal and wood but not for the bore. It can build up in the bore but is splendid for wood care and rust protection on the exterior metal. It works kinda like furniture wax and doesn't damage the wood like petro oil can. Good luck.

 

[tg]

I have found Outers gun oil good for bore protection I jsy run a dry patch down the tube to remove it and have had no problems so far, Yester day I went out to shoot the contest target and found I did not have a jag/worm or anything to wipe the bore so I dumped in the powder loaded the PRB and it fired right off like it didn't know any better., I try not to soak the bore in oil just get a light film on it.

 

[sbhg]

Yep, tranny fluid is only good for trannys.
Its not really good for nothing else, not a lubricating oil either. I use borebutter.
Clean the bore w/ very warm water, dry very good, slather w/ bore butter. Havent had any rust that I know of.

 

I agree, Bore Butter is the ****! Hell, I even cured a cast iron pan with that stuff! It's great!!

 

[jaguarxk120]

Transmission fluid or oil is used in making ed' red, a cleaning solution that those other guys use. You know those weird back end loading rifles. Can't see how a rifle will shoot with both ends of the barrel open. And they use that powder made out of wood pulp.

 

[sbhg]

A guy at a muzzleloader shoot told me you have to season the bore on a muzzleloader. So only use natural oils, don't put anything down the bore that you wouldn't put in your castiron pan.

 

[colmoultrie]

I'll admit, I got a bit lazy when I was away from home on trips. I read the statement from the Ballistol website:

"Ballistol mixes with the water and penetrates it. When the water evaporates, Ballistol stays behind and continues to protect the metal." Looking tonight, they've removed that from the US website, although it's still on the UK site.

I had tried it, and it did seem to work for several years. I used the mix to lube patches, clean, and protect, and it seemed to do a good job.

This summer's humidity, however, I guess, just didn't allow bores to dry out. Even using straight Ballistol didn't seem to work as well as I'd expect. I have read here and other places about using automatic transmission fluid, so I thought I'd ask. As someone said, it's been used as a corrosion inhibitor in Ed's Red, so I thought it worth asking.

As for "seasoning" the bore, steel is not cast iron. I do remember the claims of seasoning were mostly an attempt to sell "Natural Lube" or its variants.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Zonie]

I agree.
Modern steel cannot be "seasoned".

I also have had poor results with Ballistol a a rust preventative.

As for type A transmission fluid it may be a "synthetic" but it is still basically a petroleum product. I can find nothing that indicates it is or was intended to be a synthetic sperm whale oil.
Auto transmission fluids for the most part differ from motor oils in the amount and type of additives that are in it.


I didn't test it when I did my testing of oils to determine if they cause hard fouling but I would expect it to be similar to Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil which did poorly in my test.

The bottom line in my book is go ahead and use it if you want to but be sure to clean all traces of it out of your muzzleloader before you load the first shot.

 

[hanshi]

Me too! Dry patch then shoot. No problems at all.

 

[Dphar]

I happen to have several quarts of FA type ATF in the garage. This summer has been extremely rainy and humid, and I have had slight rusting in the bores of guns cleaned/ protected with a 50/50 Ballistol/water mix - something that's never happened before.

I've heard of using ATF as a preservative, as it's a synthetic version of the original sperm whale oil. Has anyone used type FA? I know Hanshi likes type F. FA seems at first glance or feel to be similar in color and "feel" to Marvel's Mystery Oil.

(Yes, I know I'll have to run an alcohol or moose-milk-soaked patch down the bore before shooting to get out the nasty petroleum products. If it works, I'm willing to do that.)

Water is not a protectant.
If you use a "protectant" with water you WILL have problems. If you use some "synthetic" powders you will likely lose the barrel.
I started hearing reports of rusted guns as soon a people started using water soluble oils for cleaning. It does not clean as well as water alone.

All petroleum ATF is just a light mineral oil with an additive package. The prime difference in the different types is in the friction modifiers.

Buy some modern firearms oil. G-96, Rem oil etc. Use this. Or use ATF if you want. But be aware that ATF will sometimes attack things you do not want dissolved.
Above all quit wringing your hands over petroleum protectants causing problems. This is a self inflicted wound (I guess) that I have never encountered in 40+ years of MLing. But I don't use petroleum oils on shooting patches or water soluble oils for cleaning.
Clean the bore with something that water or water and soap. Dry, perhaps using a big dose of WD-40 to displace the water, wipe, drain (expect a little black in the paper towel could be fouling from the grooves, could be iron oxide), wipe dry 1-2 patches then...
Oil with a pretty oil wet patch, follow with a dry patch, stand muzzle DOWN on a couple of folded paper towels for a couple of hours or over night.
This will prevent excess oil from pooling in the breech and running out the vent/nipple and into the stock. This will leave a film in the bore, all that is needed.
This will also prevent having a lot of oil in the breech to *possibly* react with the powder later.
I use denatured to wash out the bore if loading for hunting if just going shooting its optional and may depend on the complexity of the breech.

Dan

 

[longcruise]

It seems as though the idea that trans fluid is a good product for firearms maintenance flows from the fact that early trans fluid was sperm oil and that sperm oil had been used in firearms for many years. It certainly does not make them comparable products for firearms maintenance.

Ed's Red goes through intermittant internet periods of glorification but I can't figure out why. Guess it's kinda like patch lube and bullet lube; the more complicated and convoluted the formula the better it must be!! :haha:

 

[MikeChapin]

I happen to have several quarts of FA type ATF in the garage. This summer has been extremely rainy and humid, and I have had slight rusting in the bores of guns cleaned/ protected with a 50/50 Ballistol/water mix - something that's never happened before.

...

I have had good luck with using Ballistol to protect the barrel. After I soap and water clean, I run two patches with Ballistol/water mix to kill the soap and catch any residual graphite. I then run dry patches to dry the barrel and then use pure Ballistol to protect the barrel.

I don't really like to use a Ballistol/water mix or moose milk to clean with. I have never been able to get the rifle as clean as soap and water will do.

I don't know if I would trust a Ballistol/water mixture or moose milk to protect a barrel.

 

[hanshi]

You certainly do have to be very careful with the preservatives and lubes used on firearms. I would never knowingly use anything on my guns that would damage any part. This is one of the reasons for my dislike of the natural lube/bore butter jokes. For bore rust protection I've always used and recommended the same quality oils that are used on modern firearms. But what's good for the bore is not always good for the stock/barrel/lock/etc.

The excellent rust preventative oils will sometimes make wood soft and spongy or may damage the finish. Care should be exercised when applying such oils to external surfaces. They can run and leak into joints with the stock and over time...well... Type "F" (and I emphasize the type "F"!) is a waxy oil that does not seem to penetrate as many other oils always seem to do. When type "F" is used on the stock and wiped off the next day it apparently leaves behind a coating much like furniture paste wax. Over time it imparts a subdued "sheen" on the wood. I've come to suspect that it makes the finish a little tougher, as well.

Since type "F" does leave behind a very slight but definitely "waxy" film, it should NEVER BE USED INSIDE THE BORE! That's where the bore rust inhibitors go. On the outside type F absolutely protects the iron/steel from rust; much better, I might add, than the bore protectors. It doesn't run or wipe off easily. Cheap, too! And I'm cheap! I chew my tobacco twice and then smoke it :rotf: ! For cleaning it doesn't get any better than soap and water. As for WD40, I like it and use it after drying the bore. It seeps into those little seams and crevasses but doesn't cut it for rust protection. Go back to your proven favorites for that. :thumbsup:

 

[Dphar]

You certainly do have to be very careful with the preservatives and lubes used on firearms. I would never knowingly use anything on my guns that would damage any part. This is one of the reasons for my dislike of the natural lube/bore butter jokes. For bore rust protection I've always used and recommended the same quality oils that are used on modern firearms. But what's good for the bore is not always good for the stock/barrel/lock/etc.

The excellent rust preventative oils will sometimes make wood soft and spongy or may damage the finish. Care should be exercised when applying such oils to external surfaces. They can run and leak into joints with the stock and over time...well... Type "F" (and I emphasize the type "F"!) is a waxy oil that does not seem to penetrate as many other oils always seem to do. When type "F" is used on the stock and wiped off the next day it apparently leaves behind a coating much like furniture paste wax. Over time it imparts a subdued "sheen" on the wood. I've come to suspect that it makes the finish a little tougher, as well.

Since type "F" does leave behind a very slight but definitely "waxy" film, it should NEVER BE USED INSIDE THE BORE! That's where the bore rust inhibitors go. On the outside type F absolutely protects the iron/steel from rust; much better, I might add, than the bore protectors. It doesn't run or wipe off easily. Cheap, too! And I'm cheap! I chew my tobacco twice and then smoke it :rotf: ! For cleaning it doesn't get any better than soap and water. As for WD40, I like it and use it after drying the bore. It seeps into those little seams and crevasses but doesn't cut it for rust protection. Go back to your proven favorites for that. :thumbsup:

Type F is the same base (light mineral oil) as any other ATF but has been friction modified to produce better "grab" of the clutches.
Petroleum oils are not good for wood.
Dan

 

[texcl]

Seasoning a bore is an old sales gimick started by T/C (I think)to sell bore butter. It might work with iron but not modern steel. Go out and by clp or regular break free and oil your bore after your cleaning is done. I manage the armory and all the weapons at my station as I'm the firearms instructor and that is all I'll give my men, I have yet to see rust on a weapon oiled with CLP and my guys bring weapons in and out of sub-zero weather all day long in the winter, it is really good stuff. I have used the stuff on all my muzzleloaders for some time without rust or galling on moving parts I oil.