Bag lining

[Cutfingers]

Wondering what you are using to glue or attach lining to the leather when making a lined bag. Looking for ideas on a substance that will not harden and get stiff and is period correct. Or, as I suspect, they did not use anything.

 

[Ken Cormier]

I really don't know what I am talkin about on this subject . The 2 lined bags that I have made I used a little elmers white glue to hold the material on th edges of the leather. Then sewed the material and leather together. When the bag was turned right side out ya couldn't see it.And the linning never moved.But what do I know
Kennyc

 

[Black Hand]

Wondering what you are using to glue or attach lining to the leather when making a lined bag. Looking for ideas on a substance that will not harden and get stiff and is period correct. Or, as I suspect, they did not use anything.

Using nothing would be correct.
But then again there seems to be little evidence that period bags were lined with cloth....

 

[rdillion]

My current bag is one I made out of an old pigskin bomber jacket I had for 20 plus years and outgrew. That is got too fat to wear anymore. The pigskin was so thin that I had to line it with something. I used an old pair of worn out striped bib overalls for the lining. I didn't use any glue just tacked it in place along the stitching lines with brown thread and then sewed it up.

 

[Trkdriver99]

You could use spray trim adhesive. I agree with Blackhand, most were not lined. Fabric was another cost.

Ronnie

ps JMHO

 

[Old Salt]

I've used fabric adhesive sold at craft stores to add a pillow ticking liner on a few bags. It is sold in spray cans.

In my mind the adhesive makes the construction of the bag simpler if you use a liner. Glue the cloth to the leather then cut out your pieces using a pattern. The leather and the liner stay together so it's like sewing a single piece of material.

Leo

 

[BrownBear]

I've used fabric adhesive sold at craft stores to add a pillow ticking liner on a few bags. It is sold in spray cans.

In my mind the adhesive makes the construction of the bag simpler if you use a liner. Glue the cloth to the leather then cut out your pieces using a pattern. The leather and the liner stay together so it's like sewing a single piece of material.

Leo

"Authentic" or not, I've done the same using rubber cement. It's a pretty handy way to stiffen up soft leather while maintaining the quiet benefits. Most "tempered" leathers sound like a drum corp moving through brush at the same height as the bag.

 

[shovelhead]

Black Hand is correct to the best of my knowledge. When I was researching this I found that bags with linings are pc but that they were few and far between. When I inquired about adhensive I was told none was used, the lining was basted (lightly sewn) to the corresponding leather pieces and when the leather pieces were sewn together the basting was pull out bit by bit as the leather stitching progressed. Sometimes- not always, there might have been cutouts in the flap with animals, stars, etc and a felt insert or backing and these borders were of course sewn and helped hold any lining in place. I think these "high art" type bags may be more of an itemed owned by a town dweller/farmer than a mountain man or longhunter.
BUT.......
I found that a lining just sewn in place acts independently of the leather but if the two are glued together then the laminate is a much stronger item. I use rubber cement but the dating on rubber cement is unclear- maybe pre-1840 or maybe a little later. To settle my "gotta be pc issue" I tried plain old hide cement- been around for centuries. It stayed flexible and if I greased the outside of the bag- a light rain was okay but when I really soaked the bag the hide glue failed (it's not waterproof) but when the bag dried out the lining seemed to re-glue itself to the leather.
In any event, if you can live with a little cheating- rubber cement is a good option.
And, as Black Hand said- these lined bags were not common, I only ran across a couple.

 

[Old Salt]

"Authentic" or not, I've done the same using rubber cement. It's a pretty handy way to stiffen up soft leather while maintaining the quiet benefits. Most "tempered" leathers sound like a drum corp moving through brush at the same height as the bag.

I enjoy the ML hobby but I don't strive for complete authenticity. I look through the books for basic ideas then work with the resources I have available. :thumbsup:

 

[hoochiepapa]

For the few bags I have made, I used spray glue from craft stores, and glued the pieces after they were cut out. Any missteps with the liner were trimmed off or were covered with a strip I beaded around the edge of the bag. I also found some heavy ticking that is very stiff, and that hold the bag in shape. The deer and elk hides I used were quite limp. Don't know what will happen when it gets wet. :shake:

 

[BrownBear]

The deer and elk hides I used were quite limp. Don't know what will happen when it gets wet. :shake:

That's why I went to rubber cement. It not only stiffens the bag, it also provides a "waterproof" layer between the wet leather and the contents. Practical as can be in our wet climate.

 

[hoochiepapa]

I will keep that in mind. Gonna be making a bag for my soon-to-be fowler.
I also like the idea of fancy fabrics for the linings. I don't remember where I saw that, but it was quite attractive. I think it was CLA website(longrifle.com).

 

[BrownBear]

I also like the idea of fancy fabrics for the linings.

I also make fishing bags from oiled/waxed leather, and have used fancy fabric in them. I found some with old fishing scenes that worked out perfect. I haven't found the "right" one for a shooting bag, but I'm on the hunt. I've used blue-stripe ticking and some all-red cotton duck and they turned out really nicely.

Show us what you come up with! :thumbsup:

 

[hoochiepapa]

You might not like it, I am partly color-blind, and like vivid colors.
It's a flowered print my wifeangel picked out. pic coming.

 

[hoochiepapa]

The elk hide I'm using is chocolate brown, and I thought this would look good inside.
Don't laugh too hard!!

 

[BrownBear]

No laughter here. That's great looking fabric!

 

[hoochiepapa]

Thanks, brown bear. I haven't done it yet but I think it would give great ideas on carving...

 

[BrownBear]

It reminds me of the old "carpet bags." I have no idea when they date to, but your fabric reflects similar tastes and styles, I think.

Carving is a whole nuther matter. That could be great fun!

Another "keep us posted" prospect!

 

[LaBonte]

While I agree that most bags were proabably not lined, those that were did have glued in linings based on conversations with well known historian/artisan Steven Lalioff who has examined far more bags and other period lined articles than most of us - you can see some of work here - http://www.lalioff.com/Portfolio.htm
When glued in the most common glue was one form or another of vegetable starch and water i.e. Library paste - you can find recipes for period glues such as this on line.
As to whether bags were lined or not - the "problem" is that our database of original American made bags is so very small to make any absolutes one way or the other - when I asked Steve he said flip a coin since it could have been either way - higher ends bags built by pros would be the more likely to have been lined, while home/frontier built less likely.

 

[LaBonte]

Glue & Paste Recipes

Homemade Glue Ingredients:
3/4 cup water
2 tbsp. corn syrup
1 tsp. white vinegar
1/2 cup cornstarch
3/4 cup cold water
Method:
Mix water, syrup and vinegar in saucepan. Bring to a rolling boil. In small bowl, mix cornstarch and cold water. Add this mixture slowly to first mixture. Stir constantly. Let stand overnight before using.


Waterproof Glue Ingredients:
2 packets (1/2 ounce) unflavored gelatin
2 tablespoons cold water
3 tablespoons skimmed milk
few drops of wintergreen oil (optional)
Method:
In a small bow. sprinkle gelatin over cold water and wait until softened. Pour milk into a pot and bring to a boil. Pour into softened gelatin and stir until dissolved. Add wintergreen oil (acts as a preservative) if you would like to keep it for longer than a day.
This is a good glue when you need to glue for objects other than paper.


Homemade Paste Ingredients:
1/2 cup flour
cold water
Method:
Add flour to a sauce pan. Add cold water until a thick cream forms. Simmer on stove for 5 minutes.
Warning: This paste takes a long time to dry.


Library Paste Ingredients:
1 cup flour
1 cup sugar
1 tsp. alum
4 cups water
30 drops of oil of cloves
Method:
Mix all ingredients in saucepan and cook until clear and thick. Remove from heat and add drops of oil of cloves.


Clear Library Paste Ingredients:
3/4 cup rice flour
2 tablespoons sugar
3/4 cup cold water
2 1/2 cups boiling water
1/2 teaspoon oil of wintergreen
Method:
Mix rice flour, sugar, and cold water in a pan until smooth. Add boiling water and bring to a boil over low heat, stirring constantly, until mixture thickens. Remove from heat and add oil of wintergreen.


Stamp Gum Ingredients:
1 packet (1/4 ounce) of unflavored gelatin
1 Tbs. cold water
3 Tbs. boiling water
1/2 tsp. white corn syrup
1/2 tsp. lemon or peppermint extract
2 drops boric acid solution
Method:
Sprinkle the gelatin into the cold water and wait until softened. Pour softened gelatin into the boiling water, stirring until dissolved. Add the remaining ingredients and mix well.
When ready to use brush a little to the area that you would like it and let dry. When you need it to stick, moisten it a bit. If the gum dries up in your storage container, just scoop it out into a saucepan and heat it again.


Envelope Mucilage Ingredients:
6 tablespoons pure white vinegar
4 packets (1 ounce) unflavored gelatin
1 tablespoon peppermint extract
Method:
Pour vinegar in a pot and bring to a boil. Add gelatin and stir until completely dissolved. Add peppermint extract and stir until thoroughly mixed.

Period bookbinding sites and books will also have info pn period glues used.