Bag Molds, Pro's/ Con's

[coloradoclyde]

Obviously you would probably have to do it in stages..so the two halves weren't welded together
I think it would be a fun experiment, but I admit it requires more head scratching...

I guess the logical down side is that, it's probably just as labor intensive to make a cherry swedge as it would be to make a cherry cutter. :hmm:

 

[Stumpkiller]

This would be a great project for someone (and probably has been done). To research early ball molds/moulds.

I've seen very old soapstone molds but I wonder what a bag mold from 1760 to 1770 would have actually looked like. Many we see for sale now are probably what would have been mass produced. Colonists were obligated to purchase finished iron products from England . . . and of course they did not.

Here's one you can imagine a competent village smith might turn out. Has a really crude "shear" method of cutting the sprue. Until you look at the chisel channel that does the cutting. It would push the sprue in and then chop it flush. I bet this worked pretty darned well.

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2013/07/antique-bullet-mold.html

 

[coloradoclyde]

I wonder how Wallace Gusler would have done it ?

I wish they showed it here....
https://youtu.be/lui6uNPcRPA?t=55m18s

 

[coloradoclyde]

I suppose a radius bit could be easily
made and simply drill each half separately

 

[Auldgoat]

Made a .62+- a while back just for grins. Did it by swaging two billets of wrought iron, 2"x2"x3/4". Don't take the billets to a welding heat. If you still get a seam line in the RB, file the faces of the two halves and re-swage with the cherry repeating as necessary. The cherry won't weld in if it's a bit cooler than the billets. And don't forget to rotate the cherry as you swage. The mold could do a fairly decent job, but... Found it to be so much easier to call Larry Callahan. :grin:
Will

 

[bender20]

I seem to remember hearing or reading somewhere that they would cut an in or so off of the barrel to make the mold for it. I'll see if I can find that info.

 

[coloradoclyde]

:thumbsup:

 

[Crewdawg445]

I seem to remember hearing or reading somewhere that they would cut an in or so off of the barrel to make the mold for it. I'll see if I can find that info.

Not entirely sure how that would work... Ball diameter needs to be smaller than the bore diameter. What I'm assuming is you'd have one deformed rounball from ramming it home unless it was worked to the correct size beforehand. Also I can't see how this method would work with the rifling of their day as well. I'm sure someone more experienced can shed some light on this.

However, as some know me, I've been searching far and wide to try and replicate my own molds. I'm not coming up with anyting as of yet unfortunately. If I could come across some cherries, or have a few custom made life would be easier. I've toyed around the idea of using a bearing and hand grinding the cutting surface. Essentially in theory, cutting the two halves of soapstone very slowly while pressing them together in a vise... Still at the drawing board though. :idunno:

 

[eggwelder]

my soap stone mold took about 1/2 hour from start to first useable ball. my sprue cutter is a flat sided pair of side cutters, often found at stained glass supply stores and some craft stores. i get a little bit of casting flash, but when in done casting and cutting i put the balls in a metal can with a lid and shake the crap out of them for 5 or 6 minutes. flattens the flash and rounds the sprue cut. wear ear protection for that....trust me. or you can roll them true between 2 hard surfaces.
a good traditional blacksmith should be able to make you a cherry cutter in the size you want for a small fee.

 

[eggwelder]

there is also a book called the Art of Blacksmithing, by Alex Bealer. there is a chapter that covers the making of weapons and includes a fairly detailed overview of making cherries and bullet molds. google it. excellent book.

 

[Black Hand]

You could make your own cherries. Would take a little time, but it isn't impossible.

Described as: A rounded lump on the end of a shaft is filed spherical, cutters filed into the surface then the entire piece is hardened and tempered. The cherry is chucked in a drill and the mold is cut by slowly closing onto the spinning cherry.

Excellent pictures of roundball cherries here: http://www.hallowellco.com/cherry for bullet mould - definition.htm

 

[Artificer]

there is also a book called the Art of Blacksmithing, by Alex Bealer. there is a chapter that covers the making of weapons and includes a fairly detailed overview of making cherries and bullet molds. google it. excellent book.

Thanks for the suggestion. I just pulled out my copy and read it.

I had wondered if they drilled a partial hole on each block face before they began cutting with a cherry. The book mentions forming a shallow depression in each block face to do the same thing.

Gus

 

[tom deinek]

"Just don't hand 'em a hot ball right out of the mold"

Keeping a few hot enough to touch adds to the dramatics. You'll know if it's too hot when you handle the ball giving it to the bp "recruit"

 

[Artificer]

I seem to remember hearing or reading somewhere that they would cut an in or so off of the barrel to make the mold for it. I'll see if I can find that info.

I am wondering one of two things from the information above. It sounds like either you may have been reading about making a false starter or casting a lead slug in the first inch or so of the bore. The gunsmith could have used the lead slug with a pair of calipers to size a new cherry he would make for a new mold.

 

[Artificer]

Our Forum 18th century "Quotes Guru" Spence listed various original documentation on selling bullet molds through different merchants.

My totally undocumented theory is that they would have cast at least one lead ball and left it in each mold. Then the ball size could be checked by a prospective customer in his gun.

What I don't know is if Gunsmiths bought these molds as well and then reamed a bore to the size of the ball from the mold. The 18th century Gunsmith probate inventories I have seen normally don't list bullet molds, but they sometimes list cherries when the person doing the Inventory knew enough about identifying the tools.

Gus

 

[Coot]

Dixie Gun Works used to (may still do) offer to make a mold in any caliber desired. There were instructions in their catalog for how to make a slug for a breechloader or to cast & remove a slug in the barrel of a muzzleloader. You could send them the cast slug & they would size the mold accordingly. No reason then or now to cut off part of the barrel. Re starting the mold with drilling a shallow depression in each half, it would seem easier to heat the mold in the forge & using a small ball peen hammer or good sized punch, hammer the 'starter' depression while hot.

 

[Artificer]

Dixie Gun Works used to (may still do) offer to make a mold in any caliber desired. There were instructions in their catalog for how to make a slug for a breechloader or to cast & remove a slug in the barrel of a muzzleloader. You could send them the cast slug & they would size the mold accordingly. No reason then or now to cut off part of the barrel.

Guess I was too succinct. I did not mean to cut off the barrel when I mentioned casting a lead slug in the muzzle of the barrel.

Dixie Gun Works used to (may still do)
Re starting the mold with drilling a shallow depression in each half, it would seem easier to heat the mold in the forge & using a small ball peen hammer or good sized punch, hammer the 'starter' depression while hot.

That's what I meant when I wrote: "The book mentions forming a shallow depression in each block face to do the same thing."


Edited to add: "Forming" is a blacksmith term.
Gus