Baiting for deer and hogs.

[Celt5494]

I understand. It's something that has a lot of mixed emotions with me. I try not to judge others but follow my own path on things such as this. "tg" also brings up some really great points about the apple trees and paths we all use in his post. Aside from the right or wrong with it I think I would be bored to tears sitting up in a tree for hours on end. I suppose what evokes my thoughts on this was watching the way the hunters did business in Europe. Just didn't seem very sporting at all to me and it wasn't a meat for the table thing with them it was a trophy for the wall or their hunting club. The meat was used of course or donated but it was the original intent that was always foremost in my mind. Hope you don't think I'm getting on you friend, I'm not. Just putting some of my own thoughts to print is all.

 

[August West]

I understand. It's something that has a lot of mixed emotions with me. I try not to judge others but follow my own path on things such as this. "tg" also brings up some really great points about the apple trees and paths we all use in his post. Aside from the right or wrong with it I think I would be bored to tears sitting up in a tree for hours on end. I suppose what evokes my thoughts on this was watching the way the hunters did business in Europe. Just didn't seem very sporting at all to me and it wasn't a meat for the table thing with them it was a trophy for the wall or their hunting club. The meat was used of course or donated but it was the original intent that was always foremost in my mind. Hope you don't think I'm getting on you friend, I'm not. Just putting some of my own thoughts to print is all.

As long as someone is legal and makes a clean a kill as possible then it is no business of mine why he hunted or what method was used.

 

[Kentucky45]

As long as someone is legal and makes a clean a kill as possible then it is no business of mine why he hunted or what method was used.
[/quote]

Yeah I think there is enough of everyone telling other people how to hunt and fish. We have Fish and Game Divisions in each state that decide how we can do it. It seems anymore that no one likes anything the other guy does. Longbow and recurve hunters don't like compounders because they have the advantage of longer shots. No one likes crossbowers because anyone can shoot a crossbow and they have longer shots. Guess what, anyone can shoot a compound too with very little time spent to learn, skill or effort so the compounders need to stop complaining. And they complain the most. But if the state says they're legal then they're legal. Some muzzleloaders don't like centerfire guns because they shoot more than once and anyone can put a scope on a gun and shoot fairly well. But allot of centerfire shooters say a 600 yard shot is unethical so they don't like long shooters. Guess why, because they can't make that shot and they know it. But those that can have no problem with it. It's not an ethical dilemma for them. A .32cal and .36 cal muzzleloader is too small for deer but Davey Crockett shot deer with his. So did others. So do others. Most people can't shoot their big .50cal, .54cal and larger muzzleloaders as well as those that shoot .32's and .36's if they'll admit the truth, and all we hear is shot placement is everything. If it's everything then caliber size for a good .32cal shooter is better than a "maybe" shot from a .54cal shooter, right??? We need to make up our minds which is right. A hit is always better than a miss right? So who is more ethical the .32shooter or the .54 shooter? Don't bait fish holes. You might have a better advantage of catching fish than me. Live bait should be illegal. You should only use artificial. What? Don't bait for deer because he might go straight to your ladder stand, which by the way I don't like, instead of walking past me while I'm stalking. And I stalk only because stalking is the only true and ethical way of hunting. Ambush of any type is WRONG! Stands whether ladder or climbing or natural are wrong and unethical. Popup blinds are unethical. Scents are unethical. Scent free deodorant is unethical. I wonder how some people get to the point that they are they decide they should be the conscience of everyone else and they feel that what they do and how they hunt and fish is the only ethical way and the only way that should be legal and allowed. And what's funny about it all is out and away from the Internet, this and other forums, out of the sight of others, MANY of these same people that set such high standards for the rest of us are themselves doing the same exact things they complain and reach about here. Kind Of like "some" preachers are fine upstanding ethical self richeous people behind the pulpit, but after church they sin worse than the rest of us. Hypocrisy can go along way. Do you think if the compound bow hunters had legal problem the longbowers would show up to support them? Would the muzzleloaders go back up the long distance centerfire shooters to make them stronger as hunters and shooters? Would anyone at all help the crossbowers? Probably not. Division in any sport makes that sport weaker. And when we become weaker it lets the liberal rabbit loving wolves in. We cause our own problems because we choose to not get along. We choose to disagree and divide. If it's legal to bait for fish and game and I want to do it I will. It's my right. It's my business, no one else's. It's your right. Never in my life have I ever ask anyone to be my ethical advisor. I've never ask anyone to be my conscience. I'm really sorry for the rant, and I promise I'm not singling anyone out, no one, but instead of criticizing everything the other guy does and deciding what he should and shouldn't do, and being the ethical advisor to the rest of us when we didn't ask for it, maybe we should try to support hunting and fishing as a "whole" instead of creating holes for the tree huggers and rights hating liberals to sneak in. If we let them and encourage them they'll destroy the sport. We have a government that we constantly complain about. It takes our rights away daily and tries to be our ethical advisor and our conscience. And it's worse now than ever. And it's a government that's just waiting for us to make a mistake. If you don't like your rights being taken away from you, then don't encourage it. I think my ethics and standards are in pretty good condition without anyone else's help. My two cents. K45

 

[Pete Gaimari]

We're all entitled to our opinion, and to live our lives as we please.

I can even give mine without a rant.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If we didn't have wars, people would start one just to have something to kill each other over.

It may be the nature of man. We are Omnivores, after all, with teeth for grinding grasses and grains, and other teeth to cut meat. Something else is in our genes that makes us capable of being a predator. Our jails are full of them.

Its important that we occasionally remind each other that our enemies are Not fellow hunters, but Non-hunters, who deny the very nature of the human animal. Only in wealthy countries do you find people suffering from Anorexia Nervosa and Bolemia. Only in very poor countries do you find strictly vegetarians, because they have no source of meat protein. in the USA where we have both, The Vegetarians give all kinds of reasons why we should not eat meat. If their ancestors felt that way, they would not be here.

Shooters, hunters, fishermen need to stay together. I don't have the problem some people do with the way others hunt, as long as they are Not poaching, or violating game laws. Those laws are there to protect wild life for all of us- not for a couple of crooks who just happen to be able to spend all day or night shooting game, to sell to people in poor neighborhoods.

PETA- People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals-- even took out an ad attacking a town in upstate New York, called " Fishkill" because they didn't like the connotation of the name. The name goes back to the earliest days of European settlements, when the Dutch occupied New York( then New Amsterdam). The syllable "kill" in the name means " creek" in Dutch. Those people are our real enemies, not bow hunters, or gun hunters.

I will admit I have spent a lot of time lobbying against what I call " cheaters"-- people who buy cheap zip guns made specifically to qualify someone to participate in extra- Primitive, or Muzzleloading Only Deer seasons. These guns are little better than the zip guns we made when I was 8 years old, and not much more accurate. They load down the muzzle, which is all they have in common with traditional MLers. The use substitute powders, modern jacketed pistol bullets, in plastic sabots( shoes) and are ignited by modern shotgun primers- not even percussion caps. One maker even has built such a gun designed to shoot Smokeless powder! It still blows up if you don't seat the bullet and shoe down on the powder! :shocked2: :nono: :rotf:

My state restricted cross bows to those hunters, who could produce a letter from a physician indicating that they were not able to use compound or stick bows due to a medical injury or condition, until recently. I am waiting to see how many "Cheaters" buy crossbows. Until now they have been fairly expensive to buy- more than a lot of Compound bows cost.

I understand that my game department is now barring the use of scope sights during MLing season, unless you have a Doctor's letter indicating an eye disorder. That will pretty much end the interest in these Zip Guns here, I predict. If they bar the use of copper jacketed pistol bullets, or modern shotgun primers, that would do it for sure.

 

[Kentucky45]

We're all entitled to our opinion, and to live our lives as we please.

I can even give mine without a rant.

You're absolutely right. Just like changing the channel on your TV, you don't have to read it. But because something is your opinion doesn't mean it's ours. Most of us do alright ethically without any help. I've complained and stated what I think is ethical and right in the past too. It doesn't help anything. What's right for me may not be for someone else. But the question of the "rant" is - does it help the sport to get off on the ethical question continuously and does the subject of ethics have anything to do with the original post? The post is about what baits works good for deer and hogs. Not whether Capper or anyone else think it's ethical or not. The post is not whether it's Cappers right to state his opinion. It's simply about bait. And I don't need anyone telling me what is ethical about bait. I'll decide. If you want to start a new subject on ethics and your rights then you have that right. Please do, go for it. You have that right. It's my right to talk about bait. Thank you.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'm sorry you can't handle someone else's opinion. I did say I don't care how anybody else hunts.

If you get so upset about what someone else thinks of your hunting methods. Maybe you're not very secure on what your doing.

It's not legal in some states for a reason. You won't see stalking ever become illegal.

You didn't have to make this a big deal. You could have just read my post and moved on to the answers you wanted to hear.

Anyway, no more posts from me on this thread.

 

[tg]

". And I stalk only because stalking is the only true and ethical way of hunting"

That seems to fall into the classification of opinion, and also seems to be a bit like being the concious of others :hmm: ambush hunting has been a manistay since before paleolithic hunters learned to make stone points, o0ne think to remember that just because something is leagal or not does not make it right, we can no longer bait Bear or use dogs for hunting them, this law came about due to three large liberal population centers comprised of about 4 counties that voted down the use of bait and dogs with a lot of money from Colorado and California and a very unreal missleading campaign, now the 36 counties in this state follow the wishes of mostly non-hunters, this has become more typical of how hunting/gun laws have turned in the last 30 years, I personaly see no foul play in watching a trail for a Deer, I often alternate this and stalking, but to say stalking is the only way that is ethical is a bit strong one might very well be stalking a Deer and see another walking along a trail and then hold tight for a minute or two for the shot, I doubt many stalkers would pass that shot.I suspect a poll on whether or not stalking is the only right/ethical way to hunt would find a pretty small percentage of that mindset.Every one is entitled to do as they wish within the law but advocating such a position is not likely a GOOD way to introduce new hunters to the sport, nor is any extreme concept.

 

[Stumpkiller]

What someone else chooses to do is . . . their choice. If it is legal I'm OK with it even if it is not a method I prefer.

Personally, I'd like to see things like mechanical broadheads and "breech-loading muzzleloaders" lose their legal implement status. But, the distinction between placed bait vs. natural bait is not going to be settled because we all have and hold our own ethical mirror. Same with stands vs. stalk vs. sleep on a stump (my favorite).

 

[hawk]

was that you snoring last season stumpy ???.....i could hear ya all the way up here ! try and keep it to a dull roar this season ....your not the only stump Snoozer hunter out here ya know!LOL

...also one of my favored style of hunts. :rotf:

 

[BrownBear]

was that you snoring last season stumpy ???.....i could hear ya all the way up here ! try and keep it to a dull roar this season ....your not the only stump Snoozer hunter out here ya know!LOL

...also one of my favored style of hunts. :rotf:

I tried that stump snoozing once, and ended up with a sunburn on my tongue and the roof of my mouth. :wink: But I SWEAR I wasn't snoring.

On the original topic, we have regions here in Alaska where baiting black bears is legal and popular on public lands.

But you never before heard such a bunch of whining and pants wetting going on about guys getting too close to each other and walk-in hunters invading THEIR bait stations.

I have no problem with baiting, and in fact grew up baiting and live trapping feral pigs and javelina in the Southwest. But when guys start claiming public land as their own, it makes me real glad it's not legal anywhere near where I hunt.

 

[John Wasmuth]

What someone else chooses to do is . . . their choice. If it is legal I'm OK with it even if it is not a method I prefer.

Personally, I'd like to see things like mechanical broadheads and "breech-loading muzzleloaders" lose their legal implement status. But, the distinction between placed bait vs. natural bait is not going to be settled because we all have and hold our own ethical mirror. Same with stands vs. stalk vs. sleep on a stump (my favorite).

Sorry,but I dont want to see any "LEGAL" method of hunting outlawed, banished, or persecuted. Soons we start thumping our chests over "That should be outlawed" someone else is thumping their chest over the way we may hunt and want it outlawed. The whole idea of some one that hunts to stand up against any legal form of hunting and wanting it banished, outlawed, or otherwize made illegal starts the down hill slide to hell and being a canibal and a useful idiot to the antis.
Sorry but no, you should not wish someone elses legal means of hunting abolished in any way, shape or form.

 

[Kentucky45]

". And I stalk only because stalking is the only true and ethical way of hunting"

That seems to fall into the classification of opinion, and also seems to be a bit like being the concious of others :hmm: ambush hunting has been a manistay since before paleolithic hunters learned to make stone points,

TG I believe you misread my post stating the above comment on stalking. Please re-read it. I made those comments "sarcastically", not toward anyone directly, but toward those that feel they're just a step above the rest of us morally. I have to say I'm not crazy about muzzleloaders with scopes. If Texas had a Primitive Muzzleloader Only Season, I would lobby against in-line rifles and scopes. Neither scopes nor in-line rifles are primitive. But we don't have that. Ours is a Muzzleloader Only Season. Nothing to do with Primitive. So I leave it alone. It's legal, it's their right to use them. And I'm not their ethical advisor or conscience. I get tired of hearing people that are no better hunters, have no better ethics, and have no better values than the rest of us say this way or that way is the only true and pure way of hunting and that way should be followed by all. I'll hunt the way I like. It's legal. It's my right. Many do the same things and use the same methods as the rest of us, they just do it where no one can see it being done. I was on a lease with a guy who was a purest. His way or no way. He constantly preached that it was wrong to do anything but stalk. He was having a very unsuccessful hunt one year. I'll quote him, "I know it's wrong, and I hate to do it, it goes against everything I stand for, but I guess I'm going to have to set up my ladder stand if I want to kill a deer.". And he did. So my question to him was, if you feel it's so wrong, then why do you have a ladder stand in the back of your truck? He hasn't spoken to me since. If Daniel Boone had access to all the variety of things available to hunters today, I feel like he would have taken advantage of many of them. I bet he baited and ambushed. State legislators make the hunting and fishing laws. If we don't like them we have the right to lobby against them. As long as it is legal then a person should hunt the way he/she likes. I stalk, ambush, use tree stands, pop up blinds, still hunt, and back to the original subject of this topic, I BAIT, any thing I like because it is legal and my right. And you are correct it has been done that way since stone points. So how does anyone get to the point they decide his ethical means of hunting should be for everyone? Perhaps self-centeredness? After reading many comments on this and other topics, it appears allot of people on this forum, like myself don't need another spiritual ethics advisor and will continue to hunt exactly the way I do, any way we like.

 

[tg]

I see, but I still feel that just because something is leagal does not make it right this goes toward all the modern ML stuff in ML seasons, the time has past to try and get it back where it should be (about real ML hunting) but aginsbeing leagal does not make it right, there are many leagal ways to cheat in many aspects of our culture and speaking oput against these things is a right we all have in this country, maybe someone will listen someday,with the modern ML thing logic, common sense and a reality check fail to support its use when we look at what it started out and was invisioned by those who lobbied for the seasons years ago, yet money, special interests and peoples desire to make things faster, better and more efficient have taken precident over staying the course as was originaly thought of.

 

[Kentucky45]

I see, but I still feel that just because something is leagal does not make it right

I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I agree with you. However, "just because something is legal" - DOES make it legal. There are people out there just waiting for us to go far enough on ANY matter of hunting or fishing that will devide us. And they're ready to jump into the mix and push the divide as far as they can. When any State or Federal legislative body makes it legal for us to hunt a different way, it's best to just leave it alone. I'd have a hard time leaving it alone with in-line rifles and scopes in a Primitive Only Season. But in truth I might have to bite my lip and let it go. More hunting rights, even those we dissagree with give more hunters the ability and desire to hunt. More hunters mean more votes and more power for hunting. And even for baiting.

 

[HAMMERSCHILD]

To be honest. I've never bait hunted. It kind of rubs me the wrong way.

No more than i'd chum when I fish.

I don't hold it against anybody for doing it, but if I was to vote for making it legal. I'd vote against it.

Lucky for me it's illegal in Colorado. So, we're all stalkers.

Stalking is great in Colorado.where you can see for miles. From ridge to ridge. In the thicket of east Texas you might as well bring yer marching band with you.
As far as hog bait. Wet the corn and let it sour and drop it in a pit. I like to add a gallon of cheap apple juice.Also get on good terms with yer local grocer. They throw out tons of free hog bait. apples, lettuce, ETC. just a thought.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Still-hunting is what you do in the thick stuff. Parts of where I hunt I can't see more than 20 yards in any direction through the brush thickets.

Can you spot Carp in the red jacket in this image?

Typical hemlock stand on my back property (and the very spot where I shot a deer with my .50 New Englander while leaning against a tree and waiting.) This is as open as our woods get. In maple and oak the trees are younger, more light gets under the canopy in the spring and there is a lot more ground cover.

(If you have real good eyes there is a rifleman's knife center image stuck in a trunk where the deer was standing - this is the view I had)

Deer see better than people, so the cover is an advantage. ;-)

 

[Congress Own Regiment]

we are all in the wrong when we point fingers at each other. that is how the anties hunters win.
bow hunter tearing into crossbow, compound hunting. big rifle guys little rifle guys, semi auto, single shot close up long range. handgun muzzle loader. if we let ourselves divide into small groups the easier the organized anti groups can take so out one step at a time. I have seen it for years.
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDE WE FALL,
Choose is good and what is wrong for one may work great for others.
I personally hunt with antique cartridge rifles and shotguns, It fun to see someones face when you bag more game with a 125 year old gun they don't make shells for anymore, at least for me. I hunt with a muzzle loader for small and big game my choose yes even in modern gun season I have been that way for a long time. Some would wounder why someone would handicap them selves that way. to me it is not a handicap.
I am not waiting for a special season hunt my way. Its my hunt my fun my life.
As a group of gun owners and hunter shooters we really need to stop slinging arrows at each other.
I will hunt with and stand by any legal hunter if you are a gun owner your a friend of mine even if it is a :shocked2: ugly gun

 

[Congress Own Regiment]

my favorite way to hunt is to have my mother-in- law walk in the woods. As soon as the animals she her then run out of the woods into the open where I can get a clear shot at them.
But the frightened meat taste different.
But the real problem with that is the new people stink the area up for weeks after the locals report that they sighted Sasquatch.

 

[HAMMERSCHILD]

Still-hunting is what you do in the thick stuff. Parts of where I hunt I can't see more than 20 yards in any direction through the brush thickets.

Can you spot Carp in the red jacket in this image?

Typical hemlock stand on my back property (and the very spot where I shot a deer with my .50 New Englander while leaning against a tree and waiting.) This is as open as our woods get. In maple and oak the trees are younger, more light gets under the canopy in the spring and there is a lot more ground cover.

(If you have real good eyes there is a rifleman's knife center image stuck in a trunk where the deer was standing - this is the view I had)

Deer see better than people, so the cover is an advantage. ;-)

man, that is some pretty country up there! I sure would like to hunt up there. Thats wide open compared to down here. I have to do a lot of scouting and really get to know the game trails. I try not to foul them after Sep 1st. Its not so bad just out west. Here its mostly bramble and thicket. I still dont see the problem with baiting or using scents. I know some folks say that its not pure hunting or ethical. Im not sure what they mean. People have been using them forever. Maybe its easier to be proud about your methods when you aint hungry?