Baker Rifle builds

[Larks]

Other than the very helpful Jeff B build photos posted by tsmgguy a few days ago, Pics, Baker Rifle Build By Jeff B. , is anyone aware of any Baker Rifle builds being documented and discussed?

I’ve just received my kit from TRS and have started to clean up the castings but would be very interested to see how others have gone about building the TRS Baker Rifle kits, what sort of challenges they may have come up with and how they resolved them.

Cheers, Greg

 

[RAEDWALD]

 

[Larks]

Thanks Raedwald, I have seen all of the British Muzzleloaders videos on the Baker as well his copy of the same photos on the forum here and have them included in my tool kit for this build. As he says himself it’s somewhat of a shame that he hadn’t started his videos when he built the rifle, he’s a font of useful knowledge and tips and I’m sure he’d have covered the build very well.

 

[Larks]

Bump....?? Well this thread went down like a lead balloon didn’t it!

Could it be true that the only Baker Rifle self builds in existence are the two built by British Muzzleloader and Jeff B?

Or is there a reluctance to share any knowledge on these things because everyone who buys them has been left to work it out themselves ...so far??

How many Baker Rifle build kits would likely have been built by enthusiasts, rather than by TRS themselves?

 

[nkbj]

I just dropped by to slobber.
Would dearly love to have a Baker rifle.

 

[Larks]

Not much to slobber over yet - here’s the kit, though I’m sure you’ve seen photos of one before

 

[dd832]

Larks good luck with your Baker build. I think the reason you can't find much info on older builds is because of a company called photobucket that singlehandedly ruined the photos on many forums. There were builds probably on this forum but I know there were at least 2 builds on ALR forum. Those photos are all gone now. I think your best bet is to copy the photos on your link from Jeff B. As to your question on how many were built by enthusiasts vs. TRS, my guess is that many more were built by enthusiasts (but it's just a guess). I seem to recall the build cost on TRS going from $2400 to $2800 about 10 years ago. TRS is too busy now, under the Gunsmithing Services they only show underlug installing & breechplug work & such - no completed gun costs.

I see you have a bag of lock parts, have you built a lock from castings before? If not then I suggest you do a search for 'dave_person' on this forum. Dave has built many English pieces and has showed a lot of lock work on his posts.

I bought parts for a TRS U.S. Model 1817 Common Rifle 20 years ago and immediately got stuck on the build because of the lock. I took a machining course at a local junior college and eventually finished the bugger.

good luck, Mike

 

[Rudyard]

Well I made a Volunteer Baker years ago & I restored a much' got at' original pre 1805 original Baker but altered for the socket B' net post Waterloo. Might get a pic of the restored one but I've no knowledge of kits. I made my own patterns & got them sand cast in yellow brass Orien barrel Co made my barrels . Describing them as "Bloody brutal Baker barrels " from which I gathered they where not their normal line. Jerry Cunningham was always a fine gentleman and fun to talk too . I did make a rifled 1760 Elliott carbine with one barrel but the others I'me toying with an East India Company Baker & their Fergusson.
Rudyard

 

[Larks]

Thanks for responding Mike and Rudyard, I really appreciate the comments.

Mike, interestingly I did actually order the completed lock set. Although they had a full build kit ready to post they advised that there’d be a three month wait on the completed lock so I was ready for that wait, however five months later I was disappointed to find it arrive with the lock kit rather than the completed lock. I don’t know what happened at their end but they quickly acknowledged the error and have a completed lock on its way to me and have generously told me to keep the lock kit, so I will be interested to have a look at Dave’s work to see what I can learn with the lock kit myself anyway.

What I wasn’t aware of when I ordered it though was that they could also cut the dovetails in the barrel and I’m sorry that I didn’t know or think to get that done as well.

Rudyard, I’d be really interested to see photos of your Volunteer Baker build and your restored original. There’s actually a C1823 Baker Rifle coming up for auction here in Oz next month. Described as “VGWC” Very good working condition. I’d be interested to know what it’s estimated worth might be outside of Australia.

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Larks Where in Oz ? I'me in Nelson NZ regularly corresponded with Adrian Roads in Melbourne area .He does 95th and like me a Waterloo veteran only I don't do 95th. I did HM 92nd . Well not sure I have a pic of the Vollunteers.I know where it went but its years ago in Derbyshire .But the restored Pre 1806 is with me here so I can get a pic .I am better at making guns than doing E stuff and require my teenage daughters help to send pics but Ile get it to you . So you ended up with a spare lock set .usfull. I seek a E India Co Carbine lock to make up a E I Coy Baker gobs of originals made so prefer old one . I bought 12 locks in Cabool one time and the Bakers series pistol lock now sits in a 1820 /27 Cavalry carbine I knocked up to use it. same lock size as pistol on Bakers series .Ok trust that helps . Regards Rudyard

 

[Larks]

Hi Rudyard, I’m in South East Queensland, Gold Coast hinterland area. It’d be nice to do something with the spare lock set but I’ll put it aside until I’ve finished the rifle and when I know a bit more about flintlocks in general, I’m quite new to them. I shoot full bore comp’ (.308) and pistol comp’ here in Oz so I’m looking forward to the challenge of seeing what I can do with the Baker when it’s finished, but after that I wouldn’t mind seeing what I can do with building a flintlock pistol from scratch. I do blacksmithing and that includes making Damascus pattern steel knives and would like to have a go at a Damascus pattern barrelled pistol, something like a 1796 Heavy Dragoon pattern or otherwise something with an octagonal barrel.

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Larks Well your in the right forum here' many know a lot about flintlocks Rob Deans videos alone should give you a fair idea what to expect. Baker in his book shows targets which if not V bulls are good' figure of a man' If you can hold the black of the ISU PL7 at 100 yards you are doing very well & with your full bore skills you've a good chance . Not sure the 1796 Dragoon had a twist barrel , But my Baker has . No service arm had' Damascus' barrels just stub twist ones sometimes .
Rigby was into proper Damascus barrels & he acid etched them so the grain stood out . but on private pistols . But that's deep end stuff if not so much for you . .Jim Hash of Appomattox made a gun entirely with Damascus parts . But that's Tour D Force stuff
not general . I have a Blacksmith friend in Adelaide does artistic stuff , Yelin type stuff . I only helped as stricker some times . Pic then presently .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Larks]

Thanks Rudyard, The Damascus idea is purely because I do a bit of it already and I already have a nice billet set aside that would make a good barrel, so not really aiming to be authentically true to a Dragoon pistol from that part, more the style, size and barrel shape I guess. If I do an octagonal barrel I’d go for something like a travellers pistol, there are two coming up in an auction here that I’ve been looking at putting a bid on to try and win one or the other, a Wogdon and a Cardiff Farmer - preference is the Wogdon - but they’re the sort of thing that I’m thinking of , perhaps naively. Funnily enough the Damascus and steel part of it is probably the general stuff for me, it’s the turning them into a safe, functional and attractive flintlock that will prove the challenge for me. Either way I’ll start a thread here for thoughts and advice when I do eventually get to it.

 

[Rudyard]

The NMLRA used to put out ' The historical journal of arms making techknowlegy '
one on proportions The' golden mean' that sort of stuff . Small not dear & one delt in the jigs & dies commonly used . Used to shoot on a Station Near Surat am familiar with Engonia mud ,'Moonie monsters' &' Deliver us from Heble !'. I crewed a steam Corvette the ' SY Akuna ' out of Brisbane river to Singapore as Fireman on the 8 to 12 watch . 3 Yarrow boilers & two Tripple expansion engines .More fun than a bag of rats .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Boston Bill]

Hey to you guys in NZ and AUS. I am wondering what real black powder costs and availability is?

 

[Larks]

Hi Bill, not sure what you mean by “real” black powder but it doesn’t seem difficult to source black powder here, albeit for a pretty penny: WANO 2F and 3F comes in at around $139.00 AUD for 1kg / 2.2lb

 

[RAEDWALD]

No service arm had' Damascus' barrels just stub twist ones sometimes .

FWIW my Volunteer has a stub twist barrel.

 

[toot]

Not much to slobber over yet - here’s the kit, though I’m sure you’ve seen photos of one before

View attachment 44368

why is there a large chunk of wood left on the stock ?

 

[Tanglefoot]

Doc White has built Baker reproductions. You might check with him at: White Muzzleloading | White Muzzleloading

 

[dd832]

why is there a large chunk of wood left on the stock ?

The block of wood in front of the lock area is for clamping the stock only & is removed after the various parts have been installed.
Mike