Building a British Pattern 1800 Rifle (Baker)

[dave_person]

Hi TFoley,
The sear is fully engaged in the tumbler notches, which is why the trigger rattles a little at full cock. The pull is largely the result of how I positioned and pinned the trigger. I cocked the gun and smacked the butt against the ground pretty hard multiple times and it did not accidently fire. I don't like set triggers but do like light simple triggers with 1-2 lbs pull and so do most of my clients. Folks with set triggers routinely fire guns safely with trigger pulls less than 1 lbs. I could not stand to fire a gun with 5-7 lbs trigger pull nor could I shoot it accurately, and none like that will ever leave my shop, even the worst repro muskets. The Baker has a fly detent, which means you can set up a light trigger. Limiting it to 5-7 lbs is to totally waste the advantages of that feature. I understand your point of view. I have an original 1776 Royal Forester's carbine on my bench right now and the trigger pull is terrible, about 7 lbs. However, The Elliot carbine I m making, which is very similar to the Royal Forester's will have a trigger pull about 2 to 2.5 lbs. The lock does not have a fly but I can shape the tumbler notches to provide a solid and safe half cock and a safe but good light trigger from full cock. That way the owner can use the gun during events like woodswalks with success. He also has a safe gun to use during reenactments of the 17th light dragoons. It is not magic, just good gunsmithing.

dave

 

[Rudyard]

Someone once said the English would never say (admit?) that they were influenced by the jaeger in regard to the Baker, but the resemblance is not hard to see.
Looking forward to watching this new project, Dave!

Well' someone' was wrong all Baker claimed was his rifling' and he was not back wards in coming forwards, a latter day Greener in that respect Rudyard
Latter back from a shoot shot my snap matchlock of 54 rifled .axe marks an all . . Yes re Bakers Ime sure the false breech would be hardened but can check I've never seen original locks with deliberate case harden colours but cant rule it out (Its never wise to boldly state 'They never did ' Ect as ones sure to' pop up' & bite you!) but ' Old Dog 'knows the Brum Trade . John St 'Ledger used to re case harden Falling blocks for an Australian customer of mine I used to pick them up & send him (Wal Winfer )he was in the ' NEW Buildings' Well they WHERE back in history .Old Dog knows that stuff Re Eliots Well I made one up the full to muzzle ' Home Stocked' first pattern 1760 if omitted the small dog catch ( Couldnt See it in De Wits book !) It went to Dan Broderick in Mass but he tried to solder a different front sight with out removeing from the stock ! saw it Later at an Eastern some place .I used a ' North Star' lock sans ' fox " mark . I even made conjectural first Pat Royal Forester s but made it 2 " short in the barrel .. Pretty things I made a lot of carbines mostly for US' Patrons ' ( Up market Customers !) I could not say I am a great authority. But I Can talk fast .!
I shot against a TRS Baker today I beat it with my snap matchlock but ime only 80 its owner was older, he did do' Figure of a man' but I managed 'figure of a Donkey' which is NZ parlance for ' Red Deer' Well for hunters at least ,group covered by a hand .bad news for any Donk . .Again I doubt any Ordnance Officers any thing what does surface are Volunteers Officer Rifes & all such kit ' I made a Vol one years ago owner still has it . Quarter Pitch in 30" never ' pulled many trees up with it ' & Ime fairy sure most TRS have faster pitches .Anyway trust that helps. Wish I had an apprentice but just not the market demand & governments now do their damnest to cripple my export trade.
Regards Rudyard

 

[MikethePretender]

Hi Dave. I'm considering building a Baker from TRS for my father's 80th birthday. I have no prior experience in gun building however I'm reasonably handy and given time and research I can turn my hand to most projects. Is there any literature that you could recommend that might help me to decide if this project would be within my skillset? The only book I can find that may be useful is 'The Gunsmith of Grenville County'. Regards Mike

 

[dave_person]

Hi Mike,
The "Art of Making the Pennsylvania Longrifle" by Dixon and "Recreating the American Longrifle" by Buchele et al. are the best step by step books for the basic tasks of building muzzleloading guns. The "Gunsmith of Grenville County" is also good but it is a compilation of different articles written by Alexander over time so it does not have a logical step by step format. It is pretty comprehensive, however. Unfortunately, none of those books will help all that much making a Baker. I've made over 120 guns (at least) over many years and the Baker from TRS was a challenge. The challenges stem from the design of the gun and things that have to be adjusted or fixed on the TRS parts and stock. The first issue is you likely have to make the lock. I don't think TRS is making many locks anymore and you may have to wait a long time if you request that they make it. Lock making from TRS parts requires skill and knowledge and it really helps to have a welder and means to heat treat the steel parts. The lock on the Baker is a fine example of a late period British flintlock. As such it has the "short throw" features of locks from that time. The arc over which the flint cock rotates is short relative to earlier locks like those on Brown Bess muskets. It is a fine reliable lock but to make the design work, the parts have to be precisely fitted and the springs properly balanced. It is much easier to build a big Brown Bess musket lock as a first go because the parts are large and the geometry of the lock allows for quite a bit of margin for error. Making a Bess lock is like building a truck; whereas, making a Baker lock is a bit more like building a sports car albeit a heavy duty one. The Baker is a complicated gun and components such as the standing breech, rod retaining spring, ramrod, and trigger guard have to be carefully fitted so they work properly. Fitting the bayonet lug was fiddley not because of the soldering or brazing but because it has to be carefully positioned relative to the stock so the bayonet handle clears the wood. All of these things as well as the other basic components can be difficult if the machine inletting on the stock is sloppy, which it can be. The bottom line is that I can not recommend building a TRS Baker as a first project. A Brown Bess might be a better choice.

dave

 

[Rudyard]

Hi Dave. I'm considering building a Baker from TRS for my father's 80th birthday. I have no prior experience in gun building however I'm reasonably handy and given time and research I can turn my hand to most projects. Is there any literature that you could recommend that might help me to decide if this project would be within my skillset? The only book I can find that may be useful is 'The Gunsmith of Grenville County'. Regards Mike

Hong Kong Ime surprised the chinco control freaks will let it in or out bad enough here in NZ UK Or USA .perhaps your a Diplomat . Lots of luck chouse what . Rudyard,