Baker Rifle & leather patch

[CoyoteJoe]

Ahh yes, now we're getting somewhere, thank you. It seems there was more than one way this may have been done. The use of rifles in major battle was a growing and evolving practice so no doubt there were changes in ammunition over time.
Cornwell's works are fiction after all, and very enjoyable fiction. I like the way he sends Sharpe off on personal adventures and then makes it back to the army just in time to turn the battle and save the day. My local library has a couple of the books on audio CD and I enjoy listening to them while driving or doing some "mindless" work.
Thanks again to all who have added to this discussion.

 

[Puffer]

CoyoteJoe, As mentioned before, DeWitt Bailey's book,( British Military Flintlock Rifles 1740-1840) is a MUST to start with.(TOW has it in stock)The book that David Minshall mentioned is one to look for.

Squire Robin, as mentioned is doing GREAT work on loading & shooting an ORIGINAL. Sir Micael, Chuckpa & myself, have "Reproductions ( faster twists etc.)

Puffer

 

[mmahlock]

Earlier this year the following regiments of the British Army were consolidated into a new Regiment designated "The Rifles", Devonshire and Dorest Light Infantry, The Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Light Infantry, the Light Infantry Regiment, and The Royal Green Jackets. The Royal Green Jackets were comprised of The Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry (43rd & 52nd), The Kings Royal Rifle Corps (60th), and The Rifle Brigade (95th).

 

[mmahlock]

In regards to pre-patched balls, there are numerous references to commanders of the 95th ordering formers, powder, paper, balls, and patching made from a variety of cloth as well as leather so they could make their own in addition to pre-made cartridges supplied by the Board of Ordnance. They also provided ball molds and were required to instruct their riflemen in the art of casting balls. As to whether or not the balls they carried loose in their ball bag were pre-patched or not I can't say but the reference to loading above indicates that they were not. However, to save time it wouldn't surprise me it some riflemen did pre-patch balls either by sewing or gluing patching to their loose balls.

They were trained to use loose ball and powder for longer shots and for accuracy and cartridges when it was necessary to establish fire superiority.

The men of the 95th, 43rd, and 52nd were taught to fight in two man teams (front and rear rankers) in an extended formation (hence the reason for the officers and sergeants using whistles to pass commands.) The two man teams were taught to take advantage of cover with one man protecting the other while loading and selecting his next shot. They were also taught the standard British line and square tactics but for the most part they used the fire and maneuver tactics commonly used today. All of their training and tactics form the foundation on which armies around the world use to this day. That was Sir John Moore's big contribution to the art of warfare.

Of interest might be dispatches from French commanders who early in the war in Spain reported that they were facing two armies. A smaller one that fought in very loose order and killed at extreme range but which was easily defeated. (They considered this army defeated because it gave ground easily and left the field piecemeal.) This small army was described as wearing black or dark green uniforms. After the war Napoleon has been quoted as saying that,"... more officers and sergeants were killed by the chimney sweeps than the entire rest of the British Army..."

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Thanks again for the info, "chimney sweeps" huh!

 

[faw3]

Maybe with a please or two we can get GARY to tell us what the range really is thought to be for Plunkett's shot from the bridge laying down , barrel between feet ect on the French commander Jan 3 1808 at Cacbelos, I find the "as far as 800 yards" a bit much, he got the man who rode to his aid too. How about some insight Gary??? PLEASE? ? ? ( Gary has wrote a book on snipeing/sharpshooting that I hope should be out soon on all BP shoting from way back to the end of Bp. (for the new guys on here) that will be "I" hope the book to have.) FR$ED :hatsoff:

 

[mmahlock]

I just went through all my journals/diaries and Regimental histories and all I can find is,

Rifleman Plunket shot and killed the French cavalry General Colbert at a great range unheard of at the time, and to show it was not a fluke he also shot the General’s Trumpeter. Plunket was rewarded with a purse of money for his action...

This same phrasing appears in every reference I can find.

I do remember someone stating that the range was around 400 yds. I do have book that states,

well over 300 yds.

But, 800 is in my mind a bit of a stretch. Also, bear in mind that 300 yds was the range at which 3rd class or Marksman practiced.

 

[faw3]

Right you are... I got a book today that will get read tonight and it shows 200 to 300 BUT :shake: dont you just love that word, Plunnket was one of those 1 out of 1000 shooters, 2 head shots at 300 no big deaql for him, seems he had been doing this for some time.....whats fun is "the stuff that held the pig skin patch on hasnt been ID'd" even today?? :shocked2: and the cross cut patch's. Well back to reading, the 800 was out of to sniper history books so it was "they said"! Fred :hatsoff:

 

[benvenuto]

you might enjoy the book "Recollections of Rifleman Harris" I very foolishly sold my copy years ago and curse the day. The Spanish were using leather patches lubed with olive oil back in the 1650's. Works for some...

 

[faw3]

Ya I got that and 11 others such as "The Compleat Rifleman Harris" as told by Capt 52nd Reg of foot Henry Harris ? This late'st is Brit made " Military Illustrated's Rifleman " or all you wanted to know about Elite soldiers in wars with Napoleon, one thing it has right I think, no war has had so many books written by the common soldiers as by the 95th - boy that sure seems true, Im guessing while the Baker could be a great rifle Harris was the 95th's WhiteFeather in the USA in RVN. One of a kind shot guys. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[mmahlock]

Ya I got that and 11 others such as "The Compleat Rifleman Harris" as told by Capt 52nd Reg of foot Henry Harris ? This late'st is Brit made " Military Illustrated's Rifleman " or all you wanted to know about Elite soldiers in wars with Napoleon, one thing it has right I think, no war has had so many books written by the common soldiers as by the 95th - boy that sure seems true, Im guessing while the Baker could be a great rifle Harris was the 95th's WhiteFeather in the USA in RVN. One of a kind shot guys. Fred :hatsoff:

I've found three versions of Harris's Bio:
The Recollections of Rifleman Harris ed. by Christopher Hibbert
The Compleat Rifleman Harris: The Adventures of a Soldier of the 95th (Rifles) During the Peninsular Campaign of the Napoleonic Wars by Henry Curling 52nd Regt.
A Dorset Rifleman: The Recollections of Benjamin Harris ed. by Bernard Cornwald

Not sure which version you have. Although they should all be very similar with minor variations in editing but all were basically written by Curling.

Harris was the 95th's WhiteFeather in the USA in RVN. One of a kind shot guys.

I don't understand this.???

On a side note, the years I've spent finding in locations all over the world journals, diaries, and documents on the 95th almost feel waisted. In the last year a number of them have been reprinted and are now easily available. :shake:

 

[faw3]

Was a American sniper that made some great shots and would go thru hell to get them back in the 60s.Even shot thru (mostly) the scope of a sniper that was about to shoot him. It seems reading all I can find that they had a handfull of very good shooters like Plunket that could take anyone at 300 yds anytime. :shake: :shake: Fred :hatsoff:

 

[amplatz]

I remember reading in a book quite some time ago about the early pioneers in the Southwest using antelope skins for patches. For some reason, I think it was Charles Goodnight that said that, but I can't be sure.

 

[mmahlock]

You confused me a bit since in the 19c. people who were proven cowards were given white feathers. The USMC sniper your talking about was Carlos Norman Hathcock II who was given that name by the NVA and VC.

We're way off topic here.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Hadn't heard of that but Antelope is another thin, tough hide, rather like goat. In fact our pronghorn is not an antelope at all but is more closely related to the goat if memory serves.

 

[mmahlock]

Would Rabbit hide work after the hair was removed? There's another thread on Rabbit skins and the consensus is that they're totally useless. If they could be used for patches who knows. :hmm:

 

[Rebel]

Rabbit skins tear pretty easy. Maybe squirrel or woodchuck?

 

[faw3]

Sorry to confuse you forgot your over the water, ya he wore a white feather and was a friend of mine and my brother who was called to fly in to see him the week he died. The more I read about all the great shots made with the Baker by the real good dozen or so in the 95th all seem to have in common , cross patch that covered the whole ball made of pig skin and greased, and 1/2 the normal 4 or so Dram load was dumped for a 2 dram load each rifleman haveing his own charger. They didnt care for the Mil cart's except for the good powder the paper triled the ball when fired so the ball would land anyplace. :rotf: Anyway thats the story on the best shots Ive got rounded up from a handfull of books and could of got it all out of this last one :shake: Very intresting. Fred :hatsoff: