Baker Rifle powder horn (build)

[Larks]

Has anyone here built a TRS Baker Rifle Powder Horn or have any pictures of one built from the castings? I’ve just received the Rifle Shoppe castings for the Baker Rifle powder horn but, as is usual, no drawings, instructions or example of how these parts should go together.

This is the complete kit as they have supplied it

The pic below is the closest example of an “identified” Baker Rifle powder horn that I can find on the web which looks to have similar parts but I don’t understand from the photo what holds the spring in place? Can anyone help with that?

Am I right in thinking that the end cap (fat end) is fixed permanently in place and that the flask is only filled by the spout end?

And am I right in understanding that this is not a pouring flask but that the smaller casting (in the pic above) with the sprue on the side and the long stem on the end is a measuring cup held in by the spring?

 

[Larks]

I could really do with some thoughts on how the spring latch on this powder horn should be finished and fitted:

I “think” I may have an idea of how it should be but I can’t say that I’m completely confident....

I’ve been cleaning up the castings (and managed to slip when cutting off the sprue on the measure cup, as you might see in the pic’s below). I’m not quite finished with the clean up and my Dremel died before I’d gotten very far on the spring latch but you should be able to see where it is going....and it may be fortunate that it went flat before I made a mistake of some sort...

In the fourth photo down showing the spring latch you can see that a step or stop is emerging below the thumb piece as well as a dimple at the base which suggests a fastening point.

I’m expect for functionality that the spring latch is fastened to the measuring cup and that it should latch into a shelf of some sort inside the spout, which doesn’t currently exist.

So I’m also expecting that, although it doesn’t yet sit well into the channel in the measuring cup, the ridge on the spring is intentional and the channel needs to be shaped so that ridge side of the spring sits face down and sits cleanly in the channel..... Does that sound feasible or is the ridge likely to be a casting fault or some product of how the casting is made?

I am a bit nervous about possibly making the wall of the measuring cup too thin where I’d need to slot the channel out to take the ridge on the spring...

Any thoughts? Do the pictures paint a clear enough picture of what I’m talking about?

 

[Larks]

Well it seems I managed to work it out, all I need now is a suitable horn to fit it to (and to perhaps fill my “slip" with a bit of brass solder)

The measuring cup holds 76.5 grains of FFg

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

It looks interesting. I can’t see where you slipped with the tool.

 

[Larks]

It looks interesting. I can’t see where you slipped with the tool.

There’s a small nick in the rim of the cup where I slipped with the angle grinder when I was cutting off the sprue, you can see it in the last pic of the cup sitting in the spout

 

[Rudyard]

There’s a small nick in the rim of the cup where I slipped with the angle grinder when I was cutting off the sprue, you can see it in the last pic of the cup sitting in the spout

Well the horn Depicted is one of the Percey Tennentry who didn't have Bakers but a Gemanic rifle . The Horn in service seems to be used as a magazine horn the actual powder horn being smaller and fitting in a pocket in front of their tunic The charger should throw 4 to 6 drams according to fancy . Youde have to wonder how safe that Irish charger was but I think the smaller copper or leather covered ' lant horn' flask it had a common top charger with a spring cutoff I have one I could photo. later if desired. Again its a Percy horn I know or knew leading lights of 'students of arms' who could never precisely pin down what horns / flasks were used they where NOT Ordnance supplied rather purchased at Company level by the Unit commanders neither saw service other than for separated patched ball loading. The Issue 'cartridges' would be kept in a ' pouch ' Not as accurate a method but deemed adequate and for fast close up action better suited to getting out a hotter rate of fire .Those desirous of what both methods attained I would refer you to the Videos of Rob Dean who has forgotten more about the practical performance of the Baker than Ile ever know .I only made one & restored another .Major Myatt s book on guns shews an E I Company Horn to suit a fusil but the design would be a good one to copy as probably typical of the period , It at least has that Provenance So I made one for a Would be 95th Reenactor years, ago .incidentally I strongly suspect a boy was sent to the slaughter houses with a ring like gauge so he could pick the roundest end & of a size that made a horn carrying a pound or some such measure of powder
Regards Rudyard (Quite Baker'd out!)

PS for those not remotely wanting to know proper usage Ide refer you to the Sharpes series or books !

 

[Larks]

Thanks for the reply and clarification Rudyard and the original caption with that photo does indeed attribute it to the Percy Tenantry Volunteers but as:

IDENTIFIED BRASS BAKER RIFLE POWDER FLASK.​

[ translate ]
This scarce powder horn is engraved with a crescent and crown on the brass buttcap and is inscribed "I / 61" on the brass charger. It is the insignia of the Percy Tenantry Volunteers, one of seventeen volunteer corps that were raised in Northumberland during the Napoleonic Wars. The butt and charger are both nicely patinated brass. 11 - 1/2" in length. CONDITION: Very Good. DRG

https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lot...WDER-FLASK/1139-identified_bra-18.5.21-morphy


So ‘rather disappointing if the Percy Tenantry didn’t even have the Baker Rifle, given that The Rifle Shoppe sell these castings as:

"British Baker Rifle Powder Horn Castings​

These were taken directly from a nice original in Pierre Cayla’s Collection. The integral Irish style powder measure holds 70 grains of powder which can be decreased or enlarged by reaming or shortening the measure."

I wonder if it has been misattributed in the Pierre Cayla collection or perhaps simply used by TRS as a period horn that may possibly have been used at some time or another by some British Riflemen armed with the Baker Rifle or a rifle somewhat similar to a Baker Rifle..... ie in lieu of any real lead to a specific Baker Rifle powder horn

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

That little nick isn’t so bad. I’m sure you could either patch that, or camouflage it somehow Maybe you could solder a loop there and put a leather thong through the loop to secure it to your horn. You wouldn’t want to lose that thing out in the field.

 

[Larks]

That little nick isn’t so bad. I’m sure you could either patch that, or camouflage it somehow Maybe you could solder a loop there and put a leather thong through the loop to secure it to your horn. You wouldn’t want to lose that thing out in the field.

Great idea - I had planned to solder a loop on the spout and base so adding one to the cup would be appropriate

 

[Rudyard]

That little nick isn’t so bad. I’m sure you could either patch that, or camouflage it somehow Maybe you could solder a loop there and put a leather thong through the loop to secure it to your horn. You wouldn’t want to lose that thing out in the field.

Dear Larks In Bailies book' British Military rifles 1740 1840 'he describes the Prussian rifles bought by Ordnance to supply some units including the Percy Tenantry c1798 1800 .The appendices ? show a 41" taper round barrel of 68 cal I have a leather patched ball that came from the Castle given me by Richard Moore who got duly famous for advising & playing parts for the Celtic Films' Sharpes' Series Which adds nothing to our quest. Ime sure the guns where fit for service . The Percy's where it seems a very worthy family and incidentally if of a later period their Nieboers the Wakefield's lands adjoin the Percys They had a quantity of very fine rifles made by Purdey .For their later Volunteer's That family organised a migration sceam to bringout settlers to New Zealand in the 1840s. my home Nelson region being one such sceme. Its' first fleet' of 1841 being just three ships with only men chosen as worthy migrants who after bobbing about in whale boats checking likely sights sail into the Harbour and clear land and set up company buildings for the following years ships who brought out the families . Might I digress and add we the local black power clubs set up a "Town" by the beach and out came Sir Humphrey Wakefield of Chillingham castle to play the part of his less fortunate forebear Captain Arther Wakefield . and all went well but land disputes saw local Maory tribes question their claim ( The land was conquered by war lord Te Rappaharah all vaige un surveyed region( Nobody had cell phones) bound to be confusion .Confrontation went sour ' shoot out 'at Tuamarina, Cap't Wakefield killed, big mess . But as Sir Humphrey put it when he came out to play his forebears part " You cant make an omelet without breaking eggs " . I fired three rounds from an old 9 pounder ships Gunnade with my able gun crew in 1992 to greet the two sailing ships & a Waka being the landing of the families 150 years earlier. commemorations . Big doings for us. Later I stayed as guest of Sir Humphrey at Chillingham Castle hence my particular interest in these two Houses ("Both alike in Dignity" ) There is an exellent book written about the Percys. (Nothing to do with Harry Potter fans !)I bought two copies from Amazon but got neither to date So much for E shopping . Oddly I bought a dozen old locks in Afghanistan one was a lock from one of these Prussian rifled guns How it got there ? no idea but I let John Hakes have it & I think he loaned it to TRS .funny how these things interlink wished now ide have kept it but I knew nothing of these rifles & John Did know his Prussian guns . all interesting stuff.
Regards Rudyard the waffler .

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Larks here is a Percy small lanthorn leather covered with sight window . These Bannerman got lots of & invented some waffle about ' Lord Nelsons Navy ' I bought in in New Jersey years ago About 7&1/4" over all fixed charger looks about 3 or so drams .
Cheers Rudyard