Ball Bearings???

[USBP_1969]

OK, this is going to sort of a different question, but here goes.

In a post some time back someone said, "Ball bearings work great on pigs." At the time I didn't pay it any attention, but today it hit me. "Ball Bearings!!" :hmm: That just might work in a smooth bore.

So I started an Internet search and found that there are 19/32" stainless bearings the are .59375" in diameter. I checked how many made up a pound and its 32. At 7000 grains per pound and 32 bearings per pound I got 218.75 grains per bearing.

I have no idea what they would cost, but presuming one could get a proper patch thickness what would that mean to the ballistics?

I understand that the usual .600/ .610 lead balls weigh about 320 grains which is about 100 grains more that the SS ball bearing.

The usual reported loading for .62 smooth bores is 80 grains 3F. In smokeless I would just look for a faster burning powder because of the lighter projectile, but being new to Black Powder I haven't a clue as to whether the charge would have to be reduced, increased or remain the same.

Any thoughts other than, "This is :bull:" ??


kent

 

[Norskie]

Ricochets!

 

[rabjr]

This about penetration? Wouldn't you be better off with a harder alloy lead ball than the lighter ball barings? You can make lead pretty hard and retain the weight which would be better for penetration no?

 

[Leatherbark]

Probably indirecty proportional......But I would say around 100 or so grains of 3f would be the equal, but I would start at 80 and increase slowly.......Somehow I can see a hard steel ball sliding off of a pigs head if it does not hit directly straight on................and if the patch would fail you might scar yer bore?. One thing about it.If they ever outlaw lead it is definately food for thought!.................Bob

 

[wszumera]

Lead has higher density. Waterfowlers forced to give up lead either use steel which doesn't work so great due to density or pay big buck$ for bismuth shot.

I'd file this under bad ideas.

Clutch

 

[benvenuto]

if you are really worried about penetration on dangerous game, do what the old time african hunters did and use 10% tin 90% lead. Good for elephants, hippos and rhino...

 

[Leonredbeard]

I hope you aren't thinking about using smokeless in a muzzleloader! That could get you killed, or brutally mangled.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[USBP_1969]

Thanks gentlemen.

No, it was just a fact finding post. It wouldn't work in a rifled barrel, but I thought just might in a smooth bore. I remember reading somewhere that a Green Mountain 20 ga. smoothbore IBS barrel actually measured .610” ID and thought this might be a good platform for such an experiment in a Renegade.

Leathermoose, I did extensive ricochet testing against hard surfaces when I was serving as an instructor at the Academy with handgun ammunition. They all performed about the same with the exit angle being much shallower than the entry angle with the only difference being how much the bullet was deformed by impact on the concrete. As I read your post I first thought that there would be no difference, but as I thought about it a bit a question came to mind. Could the exit angle being much smaller than the entry angle be because of the deformation of the projectile? If that were so, then it just might have the same exit as entry angle since there would be less deformation.

Swamp Rat and Clutch, the sectional density would be quite a bit less with the lighter projectile, so it would slow quicker in any medium. The only benefits would be that the muzzle velocity would (I think) be higher and the projectile would not deform upon impact.

Volatpluvia, No sir I wouldn’t use smokeless powder in a BP long gun. I was really interested in whether a larger load of BP could be used with the lighter projectile of the same diameter.

Leatherbark, I’m new to BP shooting so I don’t have any experience with patch failure. I thought that perhaps it could occur in rifled barrels, but not in smoothbores. I have read that some folks use an over powder wad and a cushion wad under the patch which might prevent that from occurring. Thanks much for the load information.

kent

 

[Slamfire]

Ball Bearings are pretty hard. The new shot cartridges that use some form of tungsten are all contained in a heavy shot cup, because it is harder than the barrel steel. That's why shot cups were invented, steel shot was harder than existiong barrels, shotgun makers took a couple of years to change over. I'd guess you'd have to sabot a ball bearing, to protect your bore, and you'd get less penetration than from a boll cast from wheel weights and quenched in water straight from the mold. :v

 

[MikeFromON]

I think shooting steel balls would be a terrible idea for several reasons:

A) You would have remarkably less retained energy at the target because the ball would face the same wind resistance but with 2/3rds the mass to carry it along, even with equivalent powder charges. Accuracy would probably suffer as well.

B) SS is roughly 20 times as hard as lead or wheel weights so as the ball vibrates on it's way up the barrel, it would probably cause all sorts of damage and wear your barrel out very fast.

C) You would get zero expansion inside the animal.

D) As somebody else mentioned, RICOCHETS! Steel balls are much more 'bouncy' than lead because they do not deform as easily, so much more kinetic energy would go into the 'bounce'.

E) The balls would eventually rust.

F) If the balls became magnetized they may get stuck in the barrel, then again you may get amazing accuracy when shooting to the north or south.

G)Stainless steel balls are probably a lot more expensive than cast lead, especially in such a large calibre.

 

[Russianblood]

If a hard ball is truly called for, cast some from Linotype. My father uses it when he casts bullets for his 44 Magnum.

 

[Slamfire]

Ball Bearings are pretty hard. The new shot cartridges that use some form of tungsten are all contained in a heavy shot cup, because it is harder than the barrel steel. That's why shot cups were invented, steel shot was harder than existiong barrels, shotgun makers took a couple of years to change over. I'd guess you'd have to sabot a ball bearing, to protect your bore, and you'd get less penetration than from a boll cast from wheel weights and quenched in water straight from the mold. :v

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Can't think of anything other than "this is BS" :blah:

 

[jaguarxk120]

Please note shot cups were invented to protect the lead shot from the barrel steel. When older shells fired the scrubbing action of lead to steel caused mishapen shot, this shot flew outside of the pattern. Winchester started with a plastic collar to incase the shot and protect it. Later on some one thought of a one piece was system. Think of it no nitro card wad, filler wad, card wad, shot collar to load in the shell. Just one piece after powder was dropped. Reduced manfacturing steps, less work more production. More profit from a box of shells. TF

 

[USBP_1969]

E) The balls would eventually rust.

F) If the balls became magnetized they may get stuck in the barrel, then again you may get amazing accuracy when shooting to the north or south.

E = They are stainless steel, so it should be OK.
F = :rotf:

kent

 

[USBP_1969]

Blizzard of 93' = :hmm:

Thanks guys,
Kent

 

[WRussell]

Listen to Leathermoose.

Take a nice bouncy rubber ball and a steel ball bearing and drop them on a hard floor. The ball bearing will bounce higher than the rubber! Way too hazardous to be used as ammunition.

 

[Many Klatch]

I have been shooting ball bearings from my smoothbore for a lot of years. I only do it on really special occasions but they really do work. There are times, when I am on a woods walk that some smart@#$ rifle shooter starts to go on about how poorly a smoothbore will do at a long gong. This is when the ball bearing slides down the muzzle.

It will tear up most gongs, so I don't shoot any close up for fear of richochets or breaking the hosts gongs, but 100 yards away or more, yeah, thats cool.

My 20 guage smoothbore shoots a .60 ball bearing and .10 patching over 75 grains of 3F like a rifle. I can hold dead on at 200 yards. Now my barrel is extra heavy. The gun weighs in at 16 pounds, so I don't really worry much about powder charges.

You think about it for a minute. Over the same powder charge you are putting a PERFECTLY round ball that is significantly lighter than your lead ball. That bad boy is going to rocket out of the barrel a lot faster and is going to go as true as any smoothbore is capable.

I have carried one or two ball bearings in the bottom of my bullet bag for 20 years. Never seen one rust yet.

The only thing you really have to worry about is dryballing.

There used to be an old barrel maker supposedly here in Indiana that always shot ball bearings. When he shot out a barrel in a couple of years, he'd make a new one. Some old timers used to tell stories of seeing him up at the backstop after a match picking up ball bearings to use again.

Many Klatch

 

[wulf]

That is the first thing I thought...These things
don't stop. They will bounce off of anything and
keep going..My early days of exparimenting they
were all I could find and shooting in the basement
directly at the wood pile,,I got hit several times
nothing serious just a welt or bruse but it seems like i could hear them bouncing all around the room till I fially got it myself...I know i was lucky but learning ...Stay with the lead...

 

[USBP_1969]

Thanks Many. :applause: