Ball or new slug types

[Hummer]

Would like to say hi to all first of all. This is a great site! Have been idle from black powder hunting for a few years and am getting back into it. Will be going out for deer next week.
My question: I have a T/C White Mountain Carbine .50cal. Should I use ball 157gr with 90gr pyrodex RS or slug 375gr with 110gr pyrodex RS? I have been told both are good. Need some advise on this one! Slug does more damage and has less range..... I really like the ball for accuracy and range!! :headslap
Thanks .......

 

[Stumpkiller]

First off, welcome!

Ball. After all: this is the traditional muzzleloader hunting site and not just muzzleloading or modern muzzleloading.

Our purpose is to advocate and encourage hunting with the round lead ball.

Traditional or not one week is not much time to figure out a good, accurate load and get familiar with it and the rifle; ANY rifle, centerfire or muzzleloader. Good luck and get close. On it's best of days a round ball is not a long range projectile. .45 cal should stick inside 80 yards and a .54 might get to 120 yards under ideal conditions with a solid rest and stationary broadside deer. You have to learn to hunt with a round ball. But first you have to learn to hunt to hunt with a round ball. :wink:

 

[texcl]

A roundball is just as effective as a conical and in some cases more effective, if your r/b load is the most accurate I'd use it. conicals have less knock down beleive it or not but they do have better penetration. so unless you are shooting something very large or your gun will only shoot conicals accurately I'd go with the r/b every time. I killed a bear this year with a r/b and the bear dropped like a rock.

 

[Zoar]

My two pennies worth:

Round-ball!!!

For the reasons you sighted and it will get the job done with less meat damage.

 

[Trench]

The roundball should be .490 or .495 for a .50 caliber rifle and should weigh between 178-180gr for the .490 ball and 180-182gr for the .495 ball.

I hunt deer with a .570 ball in my .58 Flintlock and I have nothing but confidence. Go for the ball, it's more fun! :v

 

[dalejrfan308]

I agree. The roundball is the only way to go! I use a .60 RB in my .62 smoothbore and shot a doe with it a few weeks back. It did a very nice job. My gun shoots RBs quite accurately.

 

[Hummer]

Thanks for the replys...
I went out today and fired a WHOLE LOT OF BALLS @ 30yds and @ 50yds with the 157gr and 180gr .490 balls only .....and this gun is still very accurate so I will have no problem putting meat on the table next week!
The 180gr balls were very accurate so will be going with these. I still had the old accurate loads I was using before and played around with today. I will get close....

Forgot it is traditional!!!..the only way!!You are right balls are more fun!!
Good hunting :wink:

 

[Idaho Ron]

Where does it say that this forum is round ball only?
Ron

 

[bucktales]

I'm glad the roundballs are working for you. :thumbsup:
Those little carbines seems to have gone through an evolution of sorts. IIRC, depending on the caliber and when it was made, ROT was anywhere from 1:20, 1:38, and/or 1:48.
I have an early .54 with a 1:48 twist that shoots balls just fine.
Early on, I have killed deer with heavy conicals from my carbine without a problem, but now use roundballs.
They are easier on my shoulder and wallet.

 

[Trench]

Thanks for the replys...
I went out today and fired a WHOLE LOT OF BALLS @ 30yds and @ 50yds with the 157gr and 180gr .490 balls only .....and this gun is still very accurate so I will have no problem putting meat on the table next week!
The 180gr balls were very accurate so will be going with these. I still had the old accurate loads I was using before and played around with today. I will get close....

Forgot it is traditional!!!..the only way!!You are right balls are more fun!!
Good hunting :wink:

Where did you pick up the 157gr balls? I think those would be around .470 caliber, right? I'm glad you found an accurate load so fast. Sometimes it takes me a few range sessions to figure out my new rifles. :v

 

[rabjr]

Would like to say hi to all first of all. This is a great site! Have been idle from black powder hunting for a few years and am getting back into it. Will be going out for deer next week.
My question: I have a T/C White Mountain Carbine .50cal. Should I use ball 157gr with 90gr pyrodex RS or slug 375gr with 110gr pyrodex RS? I have been told both are good. Need some advise on this one! Slug does more damage and has less range..... I really like the ball for accuracy and range!! :headslap
Thanks .......

If the ball is working, great. I bought one of the first .50 cals (4 digit ser #) which had a 1-20 twist and it didn't like balls but then I didn't spend much time working with them. The 370gr Maxi-ball worked just fine through it. The only powder I ever put through it was 2F Goex at the time.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Where does it say that this forum is round ball only?
Ron

"Traditional Muzzleloader Hunting"

It's there in that first word.

We could have just called it "Muzzleloader Hunting" and saved electrons if otherwise. :wink:

Besides, I see LOTS of mention of other projectiles than patched round balls in this forum. Lead shot in smoothbores, for instance. :rotf:

Round balls are encouraged because this is one place where we who embrace them can gather to share our stories, but other solid lead projectiles are not forbidden.

It's like having a hunting buddy who never bathes. He's still invited to the camp but he doesn't get the upwind seat at the fire pit.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Your first post says it all.
“ Our purpose is to advocate and encourage hunting with the round lead ball.”

I am adding a link to a thread you need to read. Take note of what Zonie posted. I don't see the need to bash conicals and the people that use them.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/240174/point/18_240182/post/new/#NEW


Here is the part so you can see it here.

From Zonie
"Although solid lead slugs were not in common use prior to the Civil War, they were used, primarily for target shooting.
With this in mind, any lead slug is acceptable for discussion on the forum, even those intended for hunting. That is why folks can discuss Maxi-Balls, Buffalo Bullets and other lead bullets here."

 

[Idaho Ron]

Hummer, Hi back!
Your White Mountain Carbine could have the same rate of twist as my friends. He uses the same load I do for hunting and target.
You might want to think about paper patched bullets. I use a paper patched 50 cal bullet I make with a Lee C-501-440-RF mould. This bullet is 460 gr but it needs a 1-38 or faster twist to shoot good. My gun's have a 1-28 twist and they shoot fantastic. I use 80 gr of Pyrodex P, and a over powder wad. I get 1753 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle and it still carries over 1000 FPE past 250 yards. I saw two bucks SMOKED with this load this year. Both were pass throughs with one broad side, and the other was through the shoulder and out the flank at the hind quarter. Both shots were over 100 yards. The shoulder shot droped in his tracks like he was shot with a cannon. If a guy needs horse power this load is it. Ron

Would like to say hi to all first of all. This is a great site! Have been idle from black powder hunting for a few years and am getting back into it. Will be going out for deer next week.
My question: I have a T/C White Mountain Carbine .50cal. Should I use ball 157gr with 90gr pyrodex RS or slug 375gr with 110gr pyrodex RS? I have been told both are good. Need some advise on this one! Slug does more damage and has less range..... I really like the ball for accuracy and range!! :headslap
Thanks .......

 

[Stumpkiller]

Your first post says it all.
“ Our purpose is to advocate and encourage hunting with the round lead ball.”

:surrender:

Have someone with access to a dictionary look up the words "advocate" and "encourage" for you. I never said talk of conicals was forbidden. Just not what the spirit and purpose of the forum was built around.

Zonie's right, there were solid conicals in addition to Miniès in the Civil War. They had land mines and electrically exploded torpedoes in the Civil War, too. But they didn't use them for deer hunting. :wink:

 

[Idaho Ron]

Mr Moderator, I guess some one need to point this out again.

From Zonie,
"With this in mind, any lead slug is acceptable for discussion on the forum, even those intended for hunting."

You are trying to take this thread off topic Lets just get back to the topic. Ron

 

[Hummer]

Thanks ..you guys for all the info..I was trying to see how the light ball would work with a heavy patch..but the 180gr works JUST FINE...looking forward to the deer hunt startin in the morin.
As I said before, I hunted muzzle loader years ago am just getting back into it....used all my old combination loads so it was easy to fine tune. Checked out lite and heavy shot...found a good one... :thumbsup:

Some shootin Ron!

Great huntin fellas...

The T/C White Mountain has a 1:20 twist.

Here is an interesting site! http://www.thebuckskinner.com/barrel_chart.html

 

[tg]

"Round balls are encouraged because this is one place where we who embrace them can gather to share our stories, but other solid lead projectiles are not forbidden."

Good point, those wanting to use traditional gear just might want to look into the history of the particular "conical" they are using, it is pretty easy to see if they are traditional or not.

 

[Vaino]

Although I build and shoot fairly HC rifles and use RBs, in the elk camp everybody else shoots whatever they like w/ the Colorado MLer regs in mind. The tent gunrack has quite a variety including one "unmentionable" and it doesn't bother me one iota....why spoil a hunting trip? Some guys are mainly hunters, some are traditionalists and one is an HCist and everyone gets along fine.....Fred

 

[crockett]

I think Hanson in The Plains Rifle mentions a few Hawken rifles were build to shoot a 1" long "ball" or bullet. There is some evidence they may be pre-1840 although obviously very rare. One reason I really like the round ball is the cloth patch- no leading of the bore- you can clean up with hot soapy water.
On the range issue- I thought it was the other way- that is- the PRB leaves the muzzle a lot faster and if you crunch the ft/lb formula it would be better at a very short range but then the conical maintains velocity better and surpasses it at a longer range.