BANG..., FLOP

[Walks with fire]

Well for years I did the behind the shoulder shot and they would go quite a distance and sometimes not a great deal of blood either. If there were a bunch of deer in the group I was never sure which one to watch as the smoke cleared. If there was no snow or even days old snow it could get a bit interesting.

When I first started hunting deer I used a 30-30 Winchester lever and always aimed at the top of the shoulder and deer always went down at the shot. I didn't know any better about different shot placements so I never changed until I was informed that the heart lung area was where to hit them.

About 4 or 5 years ago I decided to see what would happen if I went back to my old aim point and started to get instant drops again so I have stuck with it and it works well for me. The longest tracking from a muzzleloader deer I ever had was a behind the shoulder shot which produced buckets of blood for a trail on the snow but it went a good 300 yards or so.

When I went to a .54 ball over the .50 ball it was even better with the shoulder hit but the .50 still would get it done.

 

[necchi]

:idunno: seems no one talks about "shoot placement"

Well where I "shoot" would be kind of off topic in this section wouldn't it?
Maybe folks will talk about "shot placement"?

 

[Griz44Mag]

So to try and stay on topic,
I only have 2 with a front stuffer, 50 cal PRB, and both of those this season. I did not step it off or measure, but a double lung in a buck. I did not see him run, (too much smoke) but the crash into the fence let me know where he was, about 30 yards I am guessing. The doe was a high in the upper lung, some damage to the upper rib cage on both sides, went only a few yards and went down.
Griz

 

[hanshi]

I've always used the dbl lung/heart shot as it's an easy target and a habit. The most interesting shot of this sort was on a doe. I was walking back to the truck when a deer broke from the tree line and darted across the path. Knowing deer, I immediately dropped to a knee and shouldered my rifle. The next antlerless deer ran out but stopped in the middle of the trail. I aimed for the dbl lung shot but the deer "twitched" as I pulled the trigger. The "behind the shoulder" shot hit the front of the neck on the opposite side where the deer had flicked it's head around. The pbr took out the carotids and she dropped straight down, bleeding out almost immediately.

A very similar thing happened with a buck I shot with a .41 revolver; only this time it hit the spine part of the neck, DRT.

 

[Stumpkiller]

:idunno: seems no one talks about "shoot placement"

I did - shot placement, anyway.

"But I always go for a double lung and avoid head and neck shots."

 

[Walks with fire]

It's the spine that gets shocked from this impact location plus it breaks shoulder bones that inhibit locomotion. Like choosing a load for your gun by letting it tell you what it likes; I like to let the deer tell me where it wants to hit. :grin:

I also firmly believe that the larger ball of a .54 transfers more of that shock and the faster the ball is going the more shock that is imparted. I shoot the highest velocity load I can until the accuracy curve starts to go south. Lighter loads can still do it but I believe a lead ball achieves it's best expansion/shock with more velocity. If your punching through heart/lungs I don't think it matters much though.

If this is off target too much delete it.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Thanks for the input everybody. I don't want to get into a discussion of what the bullet is doing, just what everybody's experience has been when using patched, round ball and the double lung. Thanks too for the additional experiences with conicals and also with other shot placements.
:thumbsup:

The other hunter that fostered my question, has switched to a shoulder-shot, which others have commented here and on another forum as a very good shot indeed. :wink: He also wrote, "Whether double-lunged or in the boiler room [meaning heart hit too...I think], they [deer] generally run a ways before expiring"

So far what I'd define as "running a ways" hasn't been my experience, nor apparently not the experience of most of the others who shared their results.

While the bullet design, propellant, and method of ignition may be "primitive", I'm not so sure at ranges of 100 yards or less, if our results are so "primitive". :shocked2: :grin:

LD

 

[azmntman]

I would feel just fine with a PRB VS a .30 caliber modern bullet on deer (and elk) sized game within 100 yds.

 

[nhmoose]

DRT is fantasy land. Yup sometimes it happens but more times not. Do not care what it is shot with unless a nervous system hit big enough not for them to recover.

Lot's of hunters need to learn to track IMHO. Shot fired blood found but no game IMHO tear your TAG UP you are done.

 

[azmntman]

With my shoulder shots they are not "truly" DRT but they DROP right there and I sped my time preparing to get the meat to the truck rather than tracking blood (or sometimes none) up towards/into darkness. As said this is an after 5:00 PM tactic for me :v

 

[Stumpkiller]

I hunt for meat and don't want to lose either shoulder.

There isn't much meat on the ribs.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I hunt for meat and don't want to lose either shoulder.

There isn't much meat on the ribs.

:thumbsup:
Me too! That small steak that gets carefully trimmed out of the cup on the blade is better than backstrap or the inside tenderloin. A little butter and oil, very lightly panned. Dang, now I'm hungry, time for a venison steak breakfast with eggs, biscuits and some red eye gravy.
Griz

 

[Ames]

X3, Stumpkiller. I don't want to waste an ounce by hitting the front shoulder.
The original question here was asking about deer. Some have offered deer/ elk answers, which got me to thinking. One of these days I'm going to draw a moose tag up here. Plan to get within 80 yards for a shot. With patience, a well placed heart shot would save me from a long swamp drag with a 4x4 and half a village. Not sure if double lung would save me from having to quarter it out of there.
Aside from where to hit it, I'm wondering if 50 cal. would get through enough of him, tough hide and all, or up it to a 54 to do the job.
Can you tell I'm on the fence to start a new 54 flint dedicated moose gun to hang on the wall till the day I draw. :hmm:

 

[azmntman]

I hunt for meat and don't want to lose either shoulder.

I have not seen the blood shot mess people get from a modern smokeless load when I'm shooting a PRB. A lil waste but not enuff to worry bout in my experience :idunno:

There isn't much meat on the ribs.

Nope But I sure do like to grill em up! A small deer gives a good size meal and an average elk 3-4. I LOVE ribs! Even a good double lung pass thru only wastes a rib or two. When I have had to pack out I do take a sharp knife and trim between the ribs to get that meat as well. Better on the bone but I dont like to pack more bones than I have too

 

[Spikebuck]

a well placed heart shot would save me from a long swamp drag with a 4x4 and half a village.

I like to watch the show "Wardens" which started with the Maine warden service. Saw one episode where two rather large fellows had shot a moose (modern rifle) that ran about 75 yards into a swamp and were not prepared to go get it (not to mention just plain lazy, IMO). They called to report they were unable to retrieve their moose and the warden put on his chest waders and slowly slogged out to the moose, sometimes over his waist in water, with a rope. They tied the other end to the hitch of the warden truck and used the ball hitch of the "hunters" truck as the "pulley" system. Pulled it out with the Warden kind of keeping it's antlers from hanging up. I thought it was kind of a cool approach to take work out of it. Of course, one has to be close to a place you can get a vehicle to.

Either that was all done just for the camera or you got a lot nicer wardens than we have! Ours would have said..."Go get it or you'll be ticketed!"

 

[Patocazador]

Either that was all done just for the camera or you got a lot nicer wardens than we have! Ours would have said..."Go get it or you'll be ticketed!"

Amen to that. Ours wouldn't do anything in the realm of physical labor for a hunter.

 

[Brokennock]

Patocazador and SpikeBuck, how big are your states and how many wardens cover them? Connecticut is pretty small but we have a lot of "wardens," more than I'll ever meet. But, I've met quite a few as I enjoy different hunting and fishing activities in many parts of the state, we have both personalities here, wardens that would definitely do that to see that the game was recovered safely, and those that would just throw the book at you.

As for "bang, flop" or run and expire? I've seen both. I think there are a lot of variables involved many we know nothing about and have no control over.

 

[Ames]

Always found the wardens in Maine helpful. No issues yet.
Everybody knows there names after "that t.v. show". Seems to have made them more approachable.
In the past year they have looked at my fishing license, and written up the paperwork covering me to put down a doe with broken shoulders in my neighbors yard. Free venison.
Now every time you turn around you recognize them by name, in the same coffee shop that you go to. I don't see them turning nasty any time soon.
I would like to think they would help an old guy get a moose back to the road, not write a ticket for wasting game.

 

[azmntman]

ff

Ya, ours are really cool here in my experience. Several years ago we found a crippled calf elk while hunting in my wife's unit. Game warden shot it and loaded in my truck! :thumbsup: 132 lbs bonless meat with a salvage tag!! :grin:

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have shot 3 deer this year with my .54, 85gr of 2F and a patched .530 ball. All the deer were hit in the same spot, double lung.

One hit the ground DRT, two ran down hill, one about 100 yards, one about 75. The blood trails on the runners were almost nonexistent for 40 yards then became the proverbial bucket of red paint thrown everywhere to the point of recovery.