BANG..., FLOP

[Loyalist Dave]

Hello Fellow Hunting Folk,

I am wondering how many of us have experienced the deer being struck by a patched, round ball, and the deer dropped where it was standing.

Plus I'd like to know how many of us regularly recover the deer in less than 50 yards, if not within sight of the spot where the deer was hit?

I ask as a fellow on another forum shooting modern rifles was remarking that his deer rarely drop where standing, but normally go less than 100 yards with a double-lung hit.

I for one have experienced only one true bang-flop when I hit the deer in the spine. I too like to use the double lung broadside hit, but with a .530 patched, round ball my experience is the deer normally do not move anywhere near 50 yards, and some could be seen from the spot where they had stood when hit.

I've only had one go more than 50 yards, and that was a buck that was moving to avoid foxhunters and hounds, and I got a shot at him when he stopped and looked back at the sound of the foxhunter's horn. He was probably full of adrenaline...

So what's the "average" experience?

:idunno:

LD

 

[R.C.BINGAMAN]

Depends on the caliber of the particular rifle I am using, mountain rifle, percussion, 54 cal.-.530 round ball 15th. patch 80 gr. 3-f usually 25 to 75 yds. double lung. The rest of the clan is all flinters Same pretty much for the 50 cal. long rifles 490 ball,80 gr,3-f, 15 th. patch ,25 to 75 yds. Now the 62 cal. 90 gr. 3-f, 610 ball, 15 th. patch not far big hole loss of air circulation and loss of blood maybe 15 to 25 yards. All round balls are cast from really pure lead my buddy gave me that was used to test x-ray machines. This stuff you can use your finger nail on to make a mark, nice expansion. The lube is my concoction of un-salted lard and bees wax. All the flint rifles are primed using 4-f, kilt a bunch of them critters.AN APPALICHIAN HUNTER

 

[Phil Coffins]

In my limited experience most deer I have shot are down with in 50 yards regardless of firearm used. Around 25 of the 73 deer was with various muzzle loaders. Others with black powder cartridge and modern guns. One had both front legs broke and hopped about 5 yards. What I've seen indicates that other then spine shot anything can happen. I really try for double lung shots but have taken any reasonable opportunity.

 

[Ames]

My topic this year, a couple weeks back, "Down to the wire", dropped right there. I moved my head around my smoke to watch which way it was running off after the shot, but no need. 5o cal. 75 grains 3f. Dead. :shocked2:
Last year downhill shot above the shoulder, out the other lung. 15 yards it ran.

The 3 years prior I had 2 200lb bucks go perhaps 45 yards each, the third smaller 150 pounder hit where it stood. Zero steps.

PRB and real powder. I'm never going back to modern.

 

[Sootburner]

Well, so far to date I've taken 6 deer with a .535 ball out of a 28 in Hawken cap lock and one with a 435 gr maxi-ball. First one was bedded and never stood up. The rest were standing within 75 yds and all were taken with shots into the boiler room wrecking the lungs or the plumbing. I have yet had to track one much longer than 50 yds when hit with a round ball. The deer hit with the maxi traveled about 125 yds.

Still batting zero with the flinlock can't wait to change that.

 

[Spikebuck]

Dave,

First comment I have is that if you take 100 guys into the woods and ask them, "How far is that?" you'll get 100 different answers that may vary widely. A lot of people who don't go around estimating distances, especially in various terrain features, cannot accurately tell distance.

Second, track one at night and you'd swear you went 200 yards. Come back and follow the trail the next day...oh, that was only 75 yards.

THAT said, for a double lung hit and NOTHING else, I think my average is around 50 yards. The shortest was around 20 yards with probably around 90 yards the longest. But 40 to 60 is, in my experience, pretty common.

Also, don't really see a difference in that whether with an arrow or a bullet. Also I've used from 50 to 62 caliber and haven't noticed lung-only shot distance differences.

The first picture is the entrance hole in a 127# field dressed weight doe's lungs, the second is the exit hole. .530 Round Ball. Complete pass through from around 40 yards. So pretty much traveling through center of the lungs. She and several others were just casually walking down the trail unalarmed. Ambient temperature was single digits below zero. She covered about 75 yards sidehilling on low slope before going down. Next one might go down in 30 yards with basically the same shot. :idunno:

 

[Archer 756]

:surrender: JUST WONDER WHY THAN DOES A SMALL cal 22 drop a deer in its tracks, "SHOOT PLACEMENT"

 

[Stumpkiller]

Twice.

A .50 cal New Englander percussion from maybe 11 yards. I was sitting on the ground and the buck was walking at me.

Ball took him just over the heart and lodged just under the skin on the far side of an upper femur (leg) bone.

Reared up on his hind legs and then dropped straight down.

Second occurrence was a .54 Renegade percussion and a bedded buck. I watched it walk in and settle down, and took many minutes to get myself in a good shooting position from a ground blind. It never stood up. 120 paces (furthest I've shot a deer with ANY firearm).


Several have dropped after a very short (35 to 50 yard) run. Those I like as well. Two went down but struggled for a few yards. Looking through my log and dusty memory I would say. 9 of 12 dropped within 50 yards. .50 or .54 doesn't seem to make a difference. All but one shot was taken on deer under 40 yards away. Even with a 0.715" ball - a deer scoots a ways. But I always go for a double lung and avoid head and neck shots.

Interestingly, I've had similar results with broadheads and wood arrows. A couple have dropped where they stood. Most collapse in six or seven seconds; trotting or running flat out. Some take a couple hops and look back, wobble, and collapse. Then there are the "problem" ones that go hundreds of yards. I've had the same results with round balls.

The two deer I have taken with centerfire rifles (double lunged from under 15 yards) both ran well over 100 yards . . . but oddly both ran in a circle and ended up not far from where I shot (7.62 x 54R, 180 gr).

 

[azmntman]

2 Dropped within site, one ran 5-60 yds. All .50 prb and all heart or dbl lung. Several elk DRT though with .54 and .58 prb. Dads buffalo shot trotting made three more steps (.58 connical). I did shoot one buck at 180 yds trotting and gut shot him. Had a bloodhound like KY tracker buddy and 4.9 miles later (per GPS) shot him again. BUT 180 yd with a .54 conical on a huge bull elk, 30 yds. (I no longer take shots over 90-100 yds though :redface: )

I have to say our PRB (and conicals) are every bit a deadly as the .30 cal high power loads shot in the general season

 

[excess650]

This one was double lunged with a .58 at about 20 yards. It ran through a screen of mountain laurel where I could see only its head, looked left, then right, and disappeared. It hadn't gone 25 yards.

This one was chasing does and quartered towards me at about 60 yards. I was in the middle of a logging road amidst crunchy leaves, so took the offhand shot. Impact was at halfway up the neck shoulder junction and he dropped and barely quivered.

I watched this one approach from a distance, walking at an angle towards me. I was sitting fully exposed on a blowdown, so tried to not move or even make eye contact. He had passed within 25 yards below me before I raised the .62 rifle and turned to shoot. I purposely shot through the shoulders as I didn't want him running into the next hollow. He trotted about 10 yards and then walked a few steps before sinking to his knees.

This one was had crossed the point below me and ran all the way to the bottom of a very steep sided hollow and paused as he started up the other side. I held at the top of his back where the shoulders meet the neck. Under the smoke I could see his white belly. He squirmed just enough to slide in the leaves, but couldn't get up. The .62 ball struck between the shoulder blade and spine, and dropped out on the floor as I pulled the hide off his brisket. It had shed enough velocity that it was round enough to load again. >125 yards

I don't have a photo, but the first MLer buck I shot was in NY State about 20 years ago. I had a TC Grey Hawk .50 loaded with as 410gr Buffalo Bullet over a ridiculous charge of Elephant ffg. I double lunged him at about 50 yards and I doubt he went another 20 downhill in the knee deep snow.

I've probably taken a dump truck load of WTs with CF rifles. Neck and spine shots were DRT every time. Lung shots with CF rifle and shotgun slugs generally had deer running, but usually less than 50 yards. One perfect double lung shot that did surprise me was a big old buck feeding along just a bit after daylight. He had no idea that I was there, but still ran about 100 yards down off the finger ridge, across a gully, logging road and started up the other side. (aged 8-1/2)

 

[Archer 756]

:idunno: seems no one talks about "shoot placement"

 

[simonbeans]

20 yards, .530 ball, 75 grains FFFg, Harpers Ferry 1803 with Colrain barrel.


Large doe, 10 minutes into season. Hit above front leg in middle chest, dropped immediately.



(Second small doe shot 5 minutes later by neighbor's daughter-in-law about 25 yards from mine. Using 12 gauge slug, but that doesn't count).

 

[James Stella]

Not sure what you mean by no one is talking about shot placement. Loyalist Dave specifically said he prefers a double lung shot. Spikebuck specifically said “for double lung shots only” and then showed pictures of a heart with a hole in it.

Me personally the only time I have had any big game animal drop in his tracks is if I broke something, either shoulder or spine. I also prefer a double lung shot. There is more room for me to make a mistake.

 

[jrmflintlock]

I have had two bull elk and one muley buck drop DRT. All three with a .535 patched RB pushed along by 80 grains of FFFg. All were quartering toward me. One bull was at 10 paces, one was at 20 paces and the muley was at 40 paces.

All other deer have gone down within 50 yards.

Only one liver shot deer went about 300 yards. And if I would have been patient, it would have only gone 75. But I bumped it twice.

You just never know. I have seen some go further even with well placed shots. But with good placement, it won't be "too" far.

 

[410-er]

I have more "Drop in their tracks" with the 45's and 50grs of powder than the 50,54,or 58.Maybe it's cause they absorb the energy with lower powder charges?

 

[hanshi]

I've had one DRT with my .54, a couple with a .50, one with a .62 smoothbore and a few with the .45. The .45 was my go-to deer rifle and it worked wonders. Mostly they've gone 10 yards to maybe upwards of 50 yards. This is the only photo of a deer kill I have. The doe fell straight down and did not move out of it's foot prints. Range was 20 yards and she was running; I'm proud of that running shot.

 

[Patocazador]

I have never had one drop on the spot with a PRB. I have had 5 or 6 do it with MaxiBalls.

 

[B.Habermehl]

I must have been fortunate, none of the deer I have shot traveled more than 50 yards. Only three bang flops though, one however was in my mind a sub par shot. I hit the deer high in the shoulder probably hitting the spine as well. It was still alive when I climbed down from the tree stand, and required a second shot. The other was a deer I shot at the great distance of about 15 feet. It took two steps, and a brand new rifle earned its name. My first muzzloader deer only gave me the junction of the skull and spine for a target at about 20 feet. It too required a second shot. This was the only time I ever deviated from my self imposed rule of broadside heart lung area shots. I've killed a bunch of deer with a couple of muzzloaders. .45 and .58 cal. I am much more confident with the 58. Blood trails have always been easy and short. Not so much with the smaller caliber. BJH

 

[Walks with fire]

If I hit the high shoulder on a broadside shot inside of 75 yards with 80-90 grains and a patched .50 or .54 ball it's always less than 25 yards and several drop at the shot. I never do a double lung shot anymore. If I break the front shoulder they go next to nowhere. They may or may not be dead instantly but they can't move either.

 

[azmntman]

I still aim for dbl ling/heart....EXCEPT near dusk, dont wanna be looking for nothing in the dark, after about 5 PM its shoulder only. Works as described above....very well