bare ball, how close is too close

[Brokennock]

.... to bore diameter. Just looking for opinions (with support for such opinions) and general discussion. When shooting round ball with no patch, just wad between powder and ball and a card or wad holding it all in, how close can/should or shouldn't one's ball diameter come to actual measured bore diameter? My Tule FdC has a bore that measures .618 and likes a .010 patched .600 round ball so well that I never tried bare ball with it. But, with my E. VA. smooth rifle, that load is way too hard to load and not very accurate, the bore measures .615, so I tried a bare .600 ball with wadding, much better, then a bare .610 ball with a wad, best I've gotten either smoothie to shoot.
I have since added a .610 mold to my casting supplies. How much variance can I safely allow for in ball diameter with only .005 difference between ball and bore? Does it matter? Thoughts?

 

[mikeo]

I suspect that the bare ball diameter should be as close to the bore diameter as possible. I shoot a .54 smooth bore with a 530 ball, a .535 will not drop down the bore. I use 75 grains of 2f then a lubed wonder wad, drop the ball down the bore then another wonder wad on top of the ball. Easy to load and very accurate.
Mikeo

 

[Many Klatch]

I have never worried too much about clearance when shooting bare ball. I normally only do that in a speed shoot at close ranges where accuracy isn't all that important. However, even bare ball needs to be done after the first couple of shots so the fouling will help keep the ball on the powder.

However, your patched ball load should be loose enough that you can start it with your finger and shoot 20 to 30 shots without having to clean.

All the patching needs to do in a smoothbore is to act as a gas check and keep the ball from rolling out when the barrel is tipped down.

 

[Stumpkiller]

No patch you should probably go for no more than 0.010" under bore size. Depends on how accurate you hope to be.

With a patch the patch thickness less than bore diameter seems to work. With the ball surrounded the patch is then 50% compressed to fit. I use a ball 0.014" less than bore size in my smoothbore. (0.648" ball in a 0.662" bore). Same size ball works well paper wrapped in a cartridge or with a 0.017" to 0.018" cloth patch.

My 12 gauge, 0.729", works OK with a 0.690" ball and 0.018" patch; but it's pretty loose. A 0.715" ball is a bit tight and I switch to a 0.010" patch.

 

[sb 54 cal.]

I shoot a .54 rice barrel that is .54 dia. so I have been shooting a 535 round ball that is been chewed with a wood rasp. I am using 60 to 65 grains of 3f 2 over shot cards and thumb start ball. I add another shot card on top of ball when I am not target shooting. It shoots min. of deer at 50 yds. :grin:

 

[BillinOregon]

In my old .75 Miroku Bess, I used a .715 wrapped in brown paper bag paper -- basically my version of a Rev War paper cartridge. Seemed to work well in taking up the windage while still be easy to load.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Historically the French go no-go gauges for trade guns shooting powder/wadding/ball/thin over ball wadding, were .015” to as much as .062” under bore size to allow for fouling.

In T M Hamilton’s book “Colonial Frontier Guns” this is referred to as Windage and he gives the exact size in mm.

Today we take better care of our arms so the windage needed to compensate for fowling and corrosion are of little concern. Surprisingly, using sisal rope or tow for wadding, I saw little difference in a 10 shot group between a ball .015” and a ball .050” under bore size. I did remove the sprew before shooting, because when you drop a ball down the barrel you do not know how consistently or which way the sprew will land on the powder.

At 50 yards from a bench rest, both size balls could hold a 9 “ group. I never took the time to tweak the load variables.

My standard load is a PRB with .020” patch and a .015 under sized ball. I only use the powder and wadding load when I am at a reenactment event portraying the 18th century Voyageur.

 

[dhobbs]

Sir,
The load I use in my Carolina gun is a bare ball & wadding load. The bore of my gun is .600 and I use a .595 undersized ball...so this is a clearance of .005(For reference-a piece of standard copy paper is .004 thick).... I use 60 grains of FFFg with Spanish moss for wadding on top of the powder and on top of the ball. I have gotten great accuracy out of this load. I do think that the live Spanish moss helps because it swabs the bore during the loading process and after shot the moisture that is released helps soften the fouling(found out the hard way about leaving a load in for a week during hunting season....it may feel dry but there is moisture present). If I am hunting the only thing I change is using a .600 "chewed" ball...because I am loading in a clean barrel. Sure beats having to pound a patched ball down the bore! :thumbsup:

Good luck,
David

 

[Gustavo Hoefs]

Do you keep a supply of this moss in your bag ? If so How do you treat for the chiggers in the moss?

 

[dhobbs]

Yes...I keep some of the Spanish moss in my shot pouch. As far as treating it for chiggers...I have had no problems with chiggers bothering me from the supply I keep in my otter skin shot pouch. If there are any in the moss.....lets just say they are on death row....I don't think they survive being shot out of the bore :hatsoff:

That load works really well for me...this past weekend I shot the 5th buck I have taken with my Carolina gun.....with a powder charge of only 60 grains FFFg the moss gives enough compression to give the shot a "Crack" when fired. I could not find the .595 ball as it passed completely through the deer. I have had the same results with all deer I have used this load on but one....a big 8 point that graces my wall...the ball pieced both shoulders and was under the hide on the opposite side.....shot took him off his feet.
Give it a try and see what you think
David

 

[Gustavo Hoefs]

Thanks David is there any folklore surrounding the use of moss? Is this something left over from the past ? How did you get the idea? I don't hunt any more but I will give the moss a try, (and BTW I have had some real bad experiences with chiggers so I think I will not spare the bug spray just to be on the safe side)

 

[tenngun]

I shoot a .595 in my center mark, I have never miched it. A . 15 patch shoots well. I will, if I'm shooting bare ball use a hunk of tow,shredded hemp rope, or shredded woolen as a wad. I used dog hair from my yorkee and I worked well but stank. I make a little nest in the wadding and push the ball down. I grease the wad with lard or mink oil. It holds the ball without a top wad, and at 25 yards shoots as well as a prb. At 50 yards it's well in deer killing groups.

 

[dhobbs]

A friend of mine shared the quote concerning the topic of historical loading methods....this is from Georgia in 1735...I combined that with the quote from Adair concerning the used of "chewed" round balls, in my attempt to replicate a historic load for my Carolina gun.
I have shot smooth-bores competitively for years always using patched round ball because that is what I observed everyone else doing, but when I started researching loading methods, specifically those used used by Southeastern Indians....patched balls are never mentioned and the term "wadding" is always used concerning smooth-bores. It does work and I have had great success with out the hassle of dealing with a tight patched ball. Below are the referenced quotes...enjoy!

I observed here a kind of long Moss I had never seen before; it grows in great Quantities upon the large Trees, and hangs down 3 or 4 Yards from the Boughs; it gives a noble, ancient and hoary Look to the Woods; it is of a whitish green Colour, but when dried, is black and like Horsehair. This is the Indians use for wadding their Guns, and making their Couches soft under the Skins of Beasts, which serve them for Beds. They use it also for Tinder, striking Fire by slashing the Pans of their Guns into a handful of it, and for all other Uses where old Linnen would be necessary.
A Voyage To Georgia Begun in the Year 1735.

"The leader, on each side, immediately blows the small whistle he carries for the occasion, in imitation of the ancient trumpet, as the last signal of engagement. Now hot work begins -- The guns are firing; the chewed bullets flying; the strong hiccory bows a twanging; the dangerous barbed arrows whizzing as they fly" James Adair

 

[Bon Sauvage]

I shoot a .595 in my center mark, I have never miched it. A . 15 patch shoots well. I will, if I'm shooting bare ball use a hunk of tow,shredded hemp rope, or shredded woolen as a wad. I used dog hair from my yorkee and I worked well but stank.

:shocked2:

 

[tenngun]

I met to add I nest it in to the wad as I load, so it's tight. I've dry balled and pulled the load with a ball screw and to came out tight as a prb, wad and ball in one chunk.

 

[Mad Irish Jack]

I have a .54 cal Early Lancaster with a colerain 44"swamped barrel. I sold off my Bess and my Tulle as well as all my modern shotguns. I'd bought a 44" Colerain 28ga/.54cal barrel but smooth, not rifled, that I switch out with the rifled barrel. I've decided to; and just ordered all the parts to make the Early Lancaster matching smooth rifle. I've shot bare .530 balls and also patched with .010 patches and had very good results with varying distance for each. Patched is a little more accurate a little farther out. My shot load is nice also. For Turkey with #6 shot at 40 yards I average 17.6 BB's in the head/neck target for five shots. At 30 yards it jumps to 25.2 BB's. Clay birds are a blast, but I still can't make a double LOL. I use 75 gr FFg Goex, card, 1/2 wad, 110 gr of whatever shot I chose, and a card.

 

[Lonegun1894]

I shoot a .595 in my center mark, I have never miched it. A . 15 patch shoots well. I will, if I'm shooting bare ball use a hunk of tow,shredded hemp rope, or shredded woolen as a wad. I used dog hair from my yorkee and I worked well but stank.

:shocked2:

I'm assuming he meant fur that the dog had shed and he got from cleaning up, of the drier basket that catches lint. I get a lot of dog fur that way from my two dogs everytime I wash the towels I use for them, or wash their bedding. Never thought to use it for wadding though. That is funny, but also ingenious.

 

[Billnpatti]

I have been shooting a 535 round ball that is been chewed with a wood rasp.

I have heard of doing this but have never done it myself. What is the purpose?

I did an experiment doing something similar to the balls. I tumbled them in a rock tumbler until they were covered with tiny dimples somewhat resembling a golf ball. I wondered if the dimples would do the same thing for a rifle ball as it does for a golf ball. I found no difference in their performance when compared to smooth balls.

Tell me about what purpose using a wood rasp on your rifle balls serves and how well it does it. Curious minds want to know. Thanks. :hatsoff:

 

[Pete G]

I shoot a .595 in my center mark, I have never miched it. A . 15 patch shoots well. I will, if I'm shooting bare ball use a hunk of tow,shredded hemp rope, or shredded woolen as a wad. I used dog hair from my yorkee and I worked well but stank.

:shocked2:

I'm assuming he meant fur that the dog had shed and he got from cleaning up, of the drier basket that catches lint. I get a lot of dog fur that way from my two dogs everytime I wash the towels I use for them, or wash their bedding. Never thought to use it for wadding though. That is funny, but also ingenious.

I've always heard of "Hair of the dog", but I thought it was for something entirely different. :idunno:

 

[Bon Sauvage]

:rotf: