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Barn Gun / Schimmel

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As I see once more, you either get it or you don't. There is no place for a discussion of the term 'barn gun' outside of SE PA. I don't know nor pretend to know why this is. I did not inven the term 'barn gun' and I don;t know who did. I don;t know what these pieces were called in 1790 or 1820 or 1840. Maybe they WERE called 'barn guns.' The facts of the matter are these - perhaps they are not palatable but nevertheless they are FACTS and have long since been proven: (1) There are many, many of these pieces all of generally Berks, Northampton or upper Bucks architecture still surviving. The large majority are likely attributable to Berks County and look it. (2) Most are smoothbored. (3) There is little consistency among these pieces however when studying a number of them at once, often a pattern will emerge and it becomes evident that there are multiple pieces surviving by this maker, multiple by that maker etc. A good number are even signed: I've seen about 5 marked "Angstadt" in block stamping upon the barrel (and a few w/ locks stamped "Angstadt" but these were likely commercial purchases by Adam Angstadt and Son in Kutzown), at least 4 or 5 by David Boyer of Owrwigsburg and thus stamped, 3 stamped "John Derr" etc. Most do NOT display secondary parts usage. (4) a very good number of these have, in fact, been found in barns. A farmer down the road from me a few miles was STILL using one as a prop to keep the barn door open occasionally. (5) The overwhelming majority of these, I dare say all, display 'oversized' architecture i.e. they appear to be well designed and shaped (albeit hastily) versions of more refined pieces. ((((Side note: this has led to much speculation that apprentices and journeyman were 'rough stocking' the basic shop gun and stockpiling them for custom-finishing as needed. Not a fact, just common speculation.)))) (6) The overwhelming majority of these are STILL, to this day, found in the above three counties mentioned. Again, predominantly Berks County.

Now knowing these facts, what conclusions would you thus draw? The conclusion which I have drawn is that the extremely poor German farmers of the region aforementioned were predominatly concerned with farming. The Indian threat was in the past. Large game was rapidly disappearing as more and more farmland was put to plow and domesticated livestock became the primary food source. The NEED for a firearm was no longer an overwhelmingly pressing need and the extreme poverty of a sizable portion of the population made ownership of anything more than a lock/stock/barrel a moot point. So where a very specific demand is created, a very specific supply is likewise created in response. This is my take on the situation. I do not think these were 'frontier' rifles: they would not have withstood extreme usage. I do not think these were 'longhunter' rifles or any other such silly thing. I do not think these were a 'fighting brand' and in fact I do not think these were marketed to any other than the aforementioned specific segment of the SE PA population. There are numerous examples of better-quality pieces currently exant to illustrate what more affluent segments of the population were purchasing. And I do no know why this subject inevitably aggravates many people. I would like an explanation to that mystery more than anything else!
 
I don't think anyone's getting their clout in a knot here. We're discussin and learnin.

Arilar brings in a good point. The "shade tree" gunsmiths. We know from ship's manifests that locks and barrels were imported. A cabinet or coachmaker would have the tools at hand to stock ready-made components into a firearm, possibly a very nice one.

I like the concept of the "rear eschelon" firearms. Those not needed for daily sustinance and survival.

Grandpa had a .32-40 he used for slaughtering hogs and to kill vermin. He never deer hunted after returning from WWI. I wish I knew where that one ended up. I found the cartridges, I suspect my cousin found the rifle. :curse:
 
I hope everyone continues to post. I really enjoy all of the posts as well as the opinions that have been expressed.

Thank you all!!! Please continue to post and discuss. I have learned soo much I didn't know!!!

:master:
 
The two that I have gotten to see were signed "D. Boyer" and the other signed in script "A. Angstadt". Both were "full figured"....NOT "fat" but of reasonably heavy proportions...especially considering the time frame.

Personally, I prefer the term "farmer's gun".... :front:
 
I agree with the "full-figured"Dutchman's label of, "farmer's gun" to cover this unique rifle of my Berks County region. If one was well-heeled enough to have a "barn gun", then the assumption could be made that this person also possessed a "cabin gun", a "shed gun", and perhaps even a short-barreled, "outhouse gun" for alimentary surprise attacks. Besides, "schimmel" seems to border on profanity, but that's just my opinion. :hmm: :kid:
 
Something else I forgot to mention: I don't know whether there is any way to completely explore or dig for documentation in regards to one theory which has currently gained some ground amongst collectors, that being that many of these *appear* to have been kept in barns and that perhaps the factor of a large number of these farmers being of various anabaptist sects may play a part in the creation, storage location and/or use of these severely plain pieces. I'm not sure where this theory originated and quite frankly I don't know as though personally I buy into it. Just another facet which warrants investigation.
 
Occasionally a mistake, but relating semi-modern practices to those of the past: The "good" gun(s) are kept in the house. The gun in the barn is a beater for "targets of opportunity" that are raiding the crops or just passing by while you're at work near the barn.

Maybe the "schimmel" guns didn't end up in the barn until very late in their service life. My barn gun is an M39 Mosin-Nagant I paid $45 for that has a few bangs left after passing from Russian hands prior to WWI to Finnish hands (where it was restocked & given a Sako barrel) in WWII before ending up in mine. That's 114 years and still pestering woodchucks.

If my barn is buried in a mudslide will future archeologists think semi-crude Mosin-Nagants were "schimmels" and that gun was purchased new from the Remington (or Sako) factory by me? That is not it's primary use or history.

Another interesting thought. Car dealerships in PA often offer "plain" vans for the Bretheren. Blackened chrome & stripped of niceties. I suppose the smiths of PA might have offered such guns that were not guilty of "hochmut".

The smiths themselves were mainly Moravian low-deutch and much less given to self denial.
 
Hey Gabby... you bear a distinct resemblance to another member of this forum, "Uncle Jed", in your style & mannerisms. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but coincidentally, Jed's last post was on 10/3 and yours began on 10/4 :hmm:... just a little curious about you "TV" types... who are we going to be visited by next... Andy Devine? Pat Brady? Corporal Agarn? :: :winking: :haha: No big deal... :blah: all in fun... :kid:
 
Hey Gabby... you bear a distinct resemblance to another member of this forum, "Uncle Jed", in your style & mannerisms. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but coincidentally, Jed's last post was on 10/3 and yours began on 10/4 :hmm:... just a little curious about you "TV" types... who are we going to be visited by next... Andy Devine? Pat Brady? Corporal Agarn? :: :winking: :haha: No big deal... :blah: all in fun... :kid:

I'm no kin to Uncle Jed or the Clampets. They shoot flies off the wall at 100 yards with a squirrel gun, but they think it's not sport'in to shoot them after they land. I couldn
 
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