Be careful out there.

[tna]

cnn.com

 

[shmrck1]

Hawken50,
is this not completely insane. let us all pray for their families. this is truely a tragedy.
snake-eyes :m2c:

 

[shmrck1]

hawken50,
the fact we donot have anymore threads on this subject in
some ways surprises me. damn this was a horrific time!!
(at least to me)
snake-eyes

 

[Griz]

This country is out of control and sliding down the tubes at a high rate of speed. I sure the D@%$ anti's will love this one and all because of one stupid jack a$$. my question is why haven't any charges been filed yet. Count how many shots were fired, give him 24 hrs to make peace with his God and let him have the same number, sorry for sounding harsh but this country has turned into a perpatrator coddling society. I was really surprised to see this did not make Tom Brokaw last night. Maybe he is going to have a interview with Michael Moore to get a better perspective on gun owners. Any body want to take a guess on how long it takes them to blame "this current administration" for this jerk owning an assault rifle?
Just one more kick in the gut for descent law abiding citizens. :curse:
Sorry for getting on the soap box, but this really eerks me.
God be with the families who suffered the loss, our prayers go out to them.

 

[Keith]

Stunning. Apparently the shooter was Hmong, an Asian minority, and there have been some racial problems there in the past and there is more concern about that now.

Amazing.

 

[Musketeer]

this country has turned into a perpatrator coddling society.

Amen, brother! You can bet that as soon as this thing goes to trial, there'll be a group of idiots holding a candlelight vigil for the PERP! I say, let him be judged, and if he's found guilty of murder, let him swing! No fanfare, no race card playing, no BS, just good, solid, American justice! The families of the fallen deserve no less! I've run into other hunters on several ocassions while I've been out hunting. I gave them a shout to let 'em know I was in the area, or vice-versa, and we got together and said, "Okay, I'll go this way and you go that way." Just to make sure we knew where each other were at, and that's been the end of it! Never a problem. I just don't understand this! :boohoo:

 

[bob1961]

why in the world are people still allowed to own semi-auto rifles in this country....there is no need for them in the hunting woods IMO....maybe for bird hunting but then again there's double barreled shot guns out there....if the gun lobbiest's want safety then ban all semi's plain and simple....who needs to own a machine gun anyhow just to go to the range and go through a zillion rounds in bout an hour and pepper the target....there is just no need for semi-auto guns but to get in the wrong hands and have something to happen like this....now i'm not talking bout hand guns but we still have problems with them also....but to take a semi into the woods has no right answer in my mind....just none....now these peoples family have to deal with this for along time and may never get over it....i know i would have trouble doing it....and not to mention guns slated for destruction that some how wind up back on the streets....now i would like that one explained....well i'm done venting maybe i'm wrong..............................................bob

 

[jtmattison]

I wonder what the heck set that guy off.
To chase the other hunters down and gun them down in cold blood is tha act of a madman!
He killed a woman and a teen for crying out loud!
Death is too good for that nut!
What the heck was he doing hunting with an SKS?

Huntin

 

for one reason bob , its would be the first step in many and would not end tell it came to you and i and our front stuffers.

see there is alot of guys that like to go out and fire 1000 rounds at the range or put out a couple bricks of 22 at cans along some local road . To them that

 

[shmrck1]

Captchee,
i guess this is my point it was not the gun that killed 6 undeserving people it was some wacked out individual. Some racial problems in the area just don't cut it this guy was Minnisota. Asian racial problems in Minnisota and Wisconsin, what's with that. I personally am at a loss to understand what happened in this rural Wisconsin area. I think this guy was hunting people, not
deer. :imo: :m2c:
snake-eyes :: :: :: :: :: ::

 

[roundball]

You can't legislate that in a free country Bob.
That would be like saying because pit bulls have hurt some people, let's outlaw all pitt bull dogs, or because motorcycle accidents frequently result in deaths, let's outlaw motorcycles.
This was truly a tragic event that occured and got national news coverage as IT WAS SO UNIQUE...but there are traffic accidents almost every week in almost every state where that same number of people unfortunately are killed all at the same time in the same accident.
I've owned Remington semi-autos in various calibers, rifles and shotguns, for over 40 years, even have an M1 Garand...never even thought about harming another human being.

 

[Musketeer]

Bob, I agree with Captain Cheetos on this one. I used to own several semi auto rifles and shotguns. The only reason I don't anymore is because they were no longer fun for ME ! As I get more and more into muzzleloaders, I become less and less interested in modern stuff; however, I still believe that folks have the right to own them. As Captchee said, a ban on semi autos would simply be the first step down the slippery slope of outright gun consfiscation. If you give the anti gunners an inch, they'll take a thousand miles! If you think they won't eventually come after your charcoal burners, you're dead wrong! Just ask Squire Robin about all the ridiculous restrictions put on muzzleloaders in Britain! I understand that it's human nature not to care too much about things that don't interest you or that don't appear to directly affect you, but I would urge you and everyone else on the Forum to stand up for ALL gun owners, whatever type of gun they shoot. We need to stick together on this! :thumbsup:

P.S. There was a bill proposed I believe it was last year which didn't pass (Thank God!) that would have subjected muzzleloaders to the same restrictions as modern guns: No more non-FFL mail order, no more 14" barrelled blunderbusses, the same background checks as for modern guns, etc., etc.! It CAN happen, and it WILL unless we stand strong and united! Look at what's been forced on our gun-loving brothers and sisters in the U.K., Canada, and Australia! Just a little morsel of food for thought.... :boohoo:

 

[SquirrelsaurusR]

Here's my two cents (that's all I can afford at the moment :: ). This isn't directed in a hostile manner at anyone, I'm just giving my opinion on the subject of banning semi-autos (or any other type of gun):

...why in the world are people still allowed to own semi-auto rifles in this country....

Because it's our right.

...there is no need for them in the hunting woods IMO....

Lots of people use them for hunting. The 7.62x39 is a popular deer cartridge, and many semi-autos are chambered for it.

...if the gun lobbiest's want safety then ban all semi's plain and simple....

Until someone is murdered with a bolt-action .30-06, then we'll have to ban those, too. I was in a Burger King that was held up once by a guy with a shotgun. We should ban those IMO. Also, six people can be shot not only with a semi-auto, but a revolver as well. A cap n' ball revolver in fact. Those need to go, along with the others. Soon there will only be muzzleloading rifles left, which is all anyone needs. Until another psychotic idiot kills someone in an argument over a deer stand. Then we'll all need to turn in our long rifles and GPRs. See where this is going? "There is no need for them" and "in the name of public safety" are hollow arguments used by the anti's that want to ban everything they're afraid of because they think this will achieve some sort of peaceful, crime-free Utopia that only exists in their sugar-coated dreams. Criminals are the problem, not guns. Take the gun from the law-abiding citizen, and the criminal will still have his (or just get another one illegally). Banning every inanimate object that's used to harm someone isn't the answer. Scott Peterson was just convicted of killing his wife in CA. Now he's behind bars, as he should be. But no one is trying to ban cars because he used one to take her body to the San Francisco Bay, or boats because he used one to dump her body in the Bay, or the items he used to attempt to sink the body. How often every year are cars used to commit murder and transport the body to dump it somewhere, transport illegal drugs, transport stolen goods, get away after robbing a 7-eleven, date-rape women, and kidnap children? Cars are used for criminal purposes every day, but I don't see anyone trying to ban them. When it comes to cars, the anti's seem to actually have their heads on straight and want to lock up the criminal who committed the crime, rather than ban the object used to commit that crime. Go figure...

...who needs to own a machine gun anyhow just to go to the range and go through a zillion rounds in bout an hour and pepper the target....

First, a semi-auto is not a machine gun. You're thinking of a full-auto, which most of us can't own (except the criminals, who can get them whenever they want them, even though they're 'banned'). Second, take a semi-auto to your local shooting range, try to go through a zillion rounds in an hour, peppering the target, and watch what happens. You'll probably end up trying to explain yourself to the local law enforcement. Most ranges (with few exceptions) don't even allow so much as a 'double-tap' (two rapid shots in succession), let alone emptying the whole magazine as fast as possible. If I take my semi-auto to my local range, I'm required to single-load every shot. No more than one round in the magazine. Fire the shot, action locked open, drop the magazine, put in another round. There is no 'peppering' the target

...there is just no need for semi-auto guns...

Only if you have no need for one. Someone else might argue there's no need for your muzzleloader. Who's right and who's wrong? Keep conceding your rights a little at a time, and soon you won't have any left.

...now i'm not talking bout hand guns but we still have problems with them also...

Then ban them. Then only criminals will have them.

...but to take a semi into the woods has no right answer in my mind....just none...

Most people take them into the woods with the intent of hunting with them, not murdering people. All it takes is one bad apple to misuse it, and everyone afraid of them wants to ban them.

...now these peoples family have to deal with this for along time and may never get over it...

Very true and very sad. However, I get the feeling that if the psycho in this case (who is obviously a few sandwiches shy of a picnic) had even been hunting with a muzzleloader, he probably would have been carrying other weapons as well and there would still be dead people after the smoke had cleared.

The inanimate object isn't the problem.
It's the person who misuses it.

 

One of the problems now is that so many people are not raised with guns as a natural part of growing up. For example, a guy I used to work with called me yesterday to crow about his 22-year old son killing his first deer - a nice 8 point. Neither dad or son are familiar with guns but they went to a sporting goods store, bought a 7mm Mag with scope and went to the range to sight in. They then went out to a friend's ranch and the kid climbed into a blind. Thirty minutes later, the buck was on the ground. At this point, they did not know how to field dress it so they tossed it in the back of the Tahoe and drove to a processor. He would not gut it so he loaned them a knife and they went to a local house in a subdivision where they hung and gutted it. The guts went into a trash bag and the deer went back to the processor.

There isn't anything wrong with this story. They had a great time, the young man's first experience was successful and the deer was not wasted. However, it proves that people with NO hunting skills can easily deal death with modern weapons. We have a society that becomes more distant from the land and each other every day. I know we all eat what we kill but very few people hunt because they have to - it is primarily done for sport and the warm camaraderie of the camp - but the anti-gunners can claim gun ownership is no longer a necessity. These types of incidents are truly tragic for all involved and provide more fuel for that fire. In addition, I have nothing against assault weapons but I doubt he would have killed as many with anything other than a clip fed piece. Whether or not you support a ban of any sort, no sane person can argue with that logic. Columbine did not happen because automatic weapons exist but they did contribute to the death toll. I see a lot of murders on the news that are done with a knife but it's rare that more than one person is killed.

We are also dominated by mass media and an increasing desire to have everything in our lives be perfect with no loss to anyone - but of course, life will never be perfect. There were murderous wackos a hundred years ago and the stories were put into the newspapers (read the period articles on the OK Corral and Billy the Kid) but the mass media splashes it all over our TV screens now and there is almost always some sort of legislative action or backlash from incidents like this. It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks.

 

[musketman]

Over a tree stand no less...

No tree stand is worth someone's life...

They could have the stand and all the deer that comes with it before I get into a gun fight...

I have a person tag my deer right out from in front of me as I was walking up to gut it...

Another "hunter" ran up and tagged it...

They can have it, ain't getting killed over 150 pounds of meat, maybe they needed it more...

People will do some desperate things in certain conditions, maybe the government should just ban people and leave the guns alone...

 

[Slowpoke]

I have a person tag my deer right out from in front of me as I was walking up to gut it...

Another "hunter" ran up and tagged it...

You have got to be kidding me.... What was the conversation like.

MM: Hey get away from my deer.
DA: Mine
MM: I shot it
DA: I tagged it
MM: Listen here you @#$%@#$%
Da: Mine, Mine, Mine

:crackup:

 

[SquirrelsaurusR]

...I doubt he would have killed as many with anything other than a clip fed piece. Whether or not you support a ban of any sort, no sane person can argue with that logic.

I can see your point with that, and now we're on the topic of banning certain weapons because of their killing potential. The problem with your argument is that it has no end. Yes, you can kill more people with a semi-auto, so let's ban them. You can also kill six people with a revolver (eight with some), so let's ban them, too. Then we'll have bolt-actions as the most potentially dangerous weapons. But you can kill four or five people with one of those (more if you're shooting at a large crowd in an urban area from a well-concealed position), so they have to go. Only single shot rifles will be allowed: break-action centerfires and muzzleloaders. But wait, with one of those, you can still kill at least one person before the cops take you down. That's one too many, so they're history, too.

An argument with no end will still allow the anti's to worm their way into it and use it against you. Like I said before, concede a little bit of your rights, and soon you won't have any left.

I say again, it's not the inanimate object that's the problem.
It's the criminal misuse of it.

 

[musketman]

You have got to be kidding me.... What was the conversation like.

MM: Hey get away from my deer.
DA: Mine
MM: I shot it
DA: I tagged it
MM: Listen here you @#$%@#$%
Da: Mine, Mine, Mine

Close, except for the part of them making sure their shotgun is fully loaded...

I just backed away and left the area...

I'm surprised more of this doesn't happen, with less and less hunting land available due to develoment, the hunting population is more condensed into confined areas...

My brother said the area along the Ohio/PENN border near Conneaut, Ohio reminds him of his Vietnam days, he said it sounded too much like a hot L.Z.

 

[Slowpoke]

Classic example of why I hate the general public....

 

SQR and others,

I was once accosted in the woods in an incident that could have ended badly and was thankful I was armed. I was hunting deer with a 12ga Auto-5 and had a .357 on my belt. This was on public land near a college in East Texas. I slipped down to a small pond and stood near a trail where deer sometimes crossed to get water. I heard a commotion and three guys in warmup suits came tromping up with fishing gear. They didn't appear to be comfortable in the woods and were covered in burrs and such. We exchanged pleasantries and then one guy abruptly asked if I had been shooting. I said, no, I was hunting and not shooting target. He promptly called me a liar and said a bullet had whizzed over their heads and he knew I had done it, although this was public land and deer season was open so there were a lot of hunters in the woods. He threatened to take my shotgun away and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. I said nothing but stepped back and put a hand on the pistol. His buddies suddenly understood and grabbed him, then pulled him away while he continued to scream at me. They were all big football player types so I chalked it up to "roid rage" but it goes to show how some people can act. I did get a laugh out of it because the next time I visited the pond, there were about 50 lures in the trees.

I'm not advocating any sort of ban, but the common gun owner argument is that we can't let assault weapons go because they'll take everything else. This culture of fear is a natural reaction that happened after the '68 gun law passed. The NRA and gun owners were surprised and reacted accordingly. Now, both sides are polarized and dead set against any negotiation. Gun owners want zero regulations and anti-gunners want every firearm confiscated so there isn't much common ground for meaningful compromise.

It is possible but difficult to buy dynamite or other types of explosives for their destructive potential. However, you can still make a bomb out of commonly found stuff because the technology already exists - the genie is out of the bottle. IMO, some things ought to be regulated in a rational, logical manner. The problem is defining how to do it.

PM me if you want to discuss further so we don't burn bandwidth.