rodwha
58 Cal.
You do realize spike buck posted a link to a grizzly in Colorado from 1970-something right? Maybe everyone involved were liars...
Bear
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hanshi
Cannon
Both Brown and Grizzly are "Ursus Arctos". The Grizzly has the sub species designation of "Horribilous" because of their violent and fierce nature. "Mandorfii", not sure the spelling, is the subspecies designation for the Brown. A "Kodiak" is simply a brown from Kodiak and related islands.
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two words Old Mose
rodwha
58 Cal.
You do realize that that has absolutely nothing to do with your previous comment I commented on, right? Please try and stay on task.
rodwha
58 Cal.
So I googled "old mose." It seems you do not know what it is you are talking about at all. And then you have the nerve you comment as you do...
rodwha
58 Cal.
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rodwha
58 Cal.
I know how much you truly hate being a part of contention, and it was certainly not my intention to stir up drama. I merely wanted to learn a bit more about bears as I know only the basics, but have seen the account of a hybrid brown/polar bear killed in Alaska and wondered if this might be happening elsewhere as I wasn't aware their heads could be shaped in such a fashion.
I absolutely appreciate the experience you give to those here. You bring much.
I'm sorry.
I absolutely appreciate the experience you give to those here. You bring much.
I'm sorry.
longcruise
70 Cal.
No need to be concerned, any topic in this forum that goes beyond about 1 1/2 pages typically goes off on several tangents. :haha:
Regarding the female griz killed in the San Juan, I Followed the incident closely at the time and a few things remain standing out in my memory.
1. It was a female and was aged at approximately 23 years.
2. It HAD born young in It's lifetime.
3. The guide who killed it was suspected of shooting it intentionally and then being attacked. He was guiding bear hunters at the time but did not have a bear license.
3. The carcass was too decomposed to draw certain conclusions about the incident.
Peterson notwithstanding, there is no solid evidence of grizzly bears in the San Juans. Given the age of the bear, the fact that it had given birth, and the apparent lack of potential mates available, some believe that the bear was actually placed there by those who wish to control public land uses through the management of endangered species.
My Own thoughts are that it's unlikely that the bear wandered in from elsewhere and even less likely that there was or is a breeding population remaining then or now. If a grizzly is going to wander into Colorado It would most likely come from Wyoming where there are sustaining breeding populations. Yet, we don't find evidence of grizzly in the north central part of Colorado where it would be most likely to occur. My first 30 years of hunting Colorado was in northern western Colorado and while there have always been plenty of black bears there, I never encountered any evidence of grizzly. I don't have the grizzly experience of some of our members, but have been up close and personal with the type of track left by a grizzly and have no problem distinguishing it from a black bear.
Regarding the female griz killed in the San Juan, I Followed the incident closely at the time and a few things remain standing out in my memory.
1. It was a female and was aged at approximately 23 years.
2. It HAD born young in It's lifetime.
3. The guide who killed it was suspected of shooting it intentionally and then being attacked. He was guiding bear hunters at the time but did not have a bear license.
3. The carcass was too decomposed to draw certain conclusions about the incident.
Peterson notwithstanding, there is no solid evidence of grizzly bears in the San Juans. Given the age of the bear, the fact that it had given birth, and the apparent lack of potential mates available, some believe that the bear was actually placed there by those who wish to control public land uses through the management of endangered species.
My Own thoughts are that it's unlikely that the bear wandered in from elsewhere and even less likely that there was or is a breeding population remaining then or now. If a grizzly is going to wander into Colorado It would most likely come from Wyoming where there are sustaining breeding populations. Yet, we don't find evidence of grizzly in the north central part of Colorado where it would be most likely to occur. My first 30 years of hunting Colorado was in northern western Colorado and while there have always been plenty of black bears there, I never encountered any evidence of grizzly. I don't have the grizzly experience of some of our members, but have been up close and personal with the type of track left by a grizzly and have no problem distinguishing it from a black bear.
Which one is the bear? 
:wink: Couldn't resist.
Nice bear. Don't believe he would be much dedder with a larger caliber.
Congrats. :applause:
:wink: Couldn't resist.
Nice bear. Don't believe he would be much dedder with a larger caliber.
Congrats. :applause:
rodwha
58 Cal.
"No need to be concerned, any topic in this forum that goes beyond about 1 1/2 pages typically goes off on several tangents. "
I know how much he hates this sort of thing, and instead of being a bigger man and ignoring Richard I helped drag his thread where he wouldn't have wanted it. He merely wanted to share his awesome experience. As he said before he doesn't post often because of the nonsense that all too often happens, and for that I am sorry as I was a part of that, which I didn't want to be, but as some seem to be unable to help themselves I also seem all too quick to respond.
I know how much he hates this sort of thing, and instead of being a bigger man and ignoring Richard I helped drag his thread where he wouldn't have wanted it. He merely wanted to share his awesome experience. As he said before he doesn't post often because of the nonsense that all too often happens, and for that I am sorry as I was a part of that, which I didn't want to be, but as some seem to be unable to help themselves I also seem all too quick to respond.
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I swear, I thought I was somehow misunderstanding "Brown bears have never lived in Colorado." hence my
I expected a reply that "Brown bears" were somehow different from Grizzlies (something I might not have known)
Truth be told, I'm still lost on the point I still can't tell if Richard is mocking the size of lower 48 Grizzlies, saying lower 48 Grizzlies are not brown bears, or denying any such ever lived in Colorado. :idunno:
But then :redface: Mea culpa :redface: I too got caught up
Sean Gadhar said::idunno: I thought grizzlies and brown bears were interchangeable
I expected a reply that "Brown bears" were somehow different from Grizzlies (something I might not have known)
Truth be told, I'm still lost on the point
I still can't tell if Richard is mocking the size of lower 48 Grizzlies, saying lower 48 Grizzlies are not brown bears, or denying any such ever lived in Colorado. :idunno: But then :redface: Mea culpa :redface: I too got caught up
Greenmtnboy
62 Cal.
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Morning all,
Yes what I harvested was a Black Bear that happens to be a CO gold. It is common to see Black bears in CO that are brown in color and yes I had to report it to fish and game and they pulled a tooth but I am positive it was a three yr old from his size,no sow with him and the fact his testies had dropped and were fully developed.
Brown bear vs Grizzly.
When I guided in AK along the rivers those were Brown bears, they tend to be larger in size and because they have plenty of food aka salmon they tend to be a little more doscile.
Grizzlies are more of a high country bear, smaller and because they eat what ever they can find moths,grass,carcasses they tend to be more aggressive than the river bears who eat better.
:hatsoff:
Yes what I harvested was a Black Bear that happens to be a CO gold. It is common to see Black bears in CO that are brown in color and yes I had to report it to fish and game and they pulled a tooth but I am positive it was a three yr old from his size,no sow with him and the fact his testies had dropped and were fully developed.
Brown bear vs Grizzly.
When I guided in AK along the rivers those were Brown bears, they tend to be larger in size and because they have plenty of food aka salmon they tend to be a little more doscile.
Grizzlies are more of a high country bear, smaller and because they eat what ever they can find moths,grass,carcasses they tend to be more aggressive than the river bears who eat better.
:hatsoff:
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All that I know about this subject is that is a NICE bear & that "Blackies" come in MANY colors.
During the search for the FOUKE MONSTER, years ago when I lived in AR, a state trooper shot a 280 pound plus "Veronica Lake BLONDE" male that "rushed at him out of the darkness".
(The blond bear was mounted & given to an AR university to display.)
Note: There was/is (??) a REAL Fouke Monster but what it was/is is unknown. The noted/late biologist Dr. Vincent Oliver PhD believed until the end of his life that the Monster was a very large, mutant, light-brown in color, black bear, that had become "man aggressive" & "turned" into a livestock killer that killed for "fun" as well as for food.
(The Fouke Monster was seen several times, over the years, by the combined scientific/law enforcement team that looked for it.)
yours, satx
During the search for the FOUKE MONSTER, years ago when I lived in AR, a state trooper shot a 280 pound plus "Veronica Lake BLONDE" male that "rushed at him out of the darkness".
(The blond bear was mounted & given to an AR university to display.)
Note: There was/is (??) a REAL Fouke Monster but what it was/is is unknown. The noted/late biologist Dr. Vincent Oliver PhD believed until the end of his life that the Monster was a very large, mutant, light-brown in color, black bear, that had become "man aggressive" & "turned" into a livestock killer that killed for "fun" as well as for food.
(The Fouke Monster was seen several times, over the years, by the combined scientific/law enforcement team that looked for it.)
yours, satx
longcruise
70 Cal.
I'm pretty sure that genetically brown bears and grizzly bears are identical. Like GMB says, they are more differentiated by habitat and diet.
I'm old enough to have some memories that go way back, but also old enough to realize that some of those memories are kinda fuzzy. :haha: that said, one memory that goes way back was that they were all grizzly until one of the record keeping outfits (boone and Crockett?) Split them for record keeping purposes.
Guess that runs the topic a bit further into the ditch. :redface:
I'm old enough to have some memories that go way back, but also old enough to realize that some of those memories are kinda fuzzy. :haha: that said, one memory that goes way back was that they were all grizzly until one of the record keeping outfits (boone and Crockett?) Split them for record keeping purposes.
Guess that runs the topic a bit further into the ditch. :redface:
satx78247 said:
Not to be confused with the Wampus Cat, also believed to inhabit parts of Arkansas. :shocked2:
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I've not heard of a Wampus Cat but the Fouke Monster tore the head off of several cattle, consumed large parts of those cattle & attacked any number of people. - No human could do that.
Fwiw, I always thought that Dr. Oliver, who I knew in college DAZE, was correct because I can't think of any other known mammal in North America that is that strong.
yours, satx
Fwiw, I always thought that Dr. Oliver, who I knew in college DAZE, was correct because I can't think of any other known mammal in North America that is that strong.
yours, satx
Patocazador
54 Cal.
Those Wampus Cats get around. They had them in Alabama, Tennessee, and here in Florida too. It scares the young-uns. :grin:
I know this sounds lame but someone told me a brown bear and a grizzly are the same and the only difference is where it lives. In other words, in Alaska a coast "brown bear" could head inland for some unknown reason and as soon as it crosses a certain mountain range (I don't know which) that same bear suddenly becomes a grizzly.
Off hand I think the grizzly is a tougher critter, in other words a 450 lb. grizzly would kill a 450 lb. black bear. The grizzly has longer claws and to me- it always looks like the head is proportionally larger to its body than a black bear of equal weight.
The tracks are supposed to be different- not just the claws farther out on a grizzly, all the toes on the grizzly are suppose to end in a straight line- so if you put a ruler in a bear track, the ruler would be touching the back of all the toe imprints. On a black bear the "pinky" toe is over on the right of the paw and farther back so you cannot have a ruler touch the backs of all toes.
One thing I never got a square answer on is just how feisty are grizzly bears? Lets say over a period of years you see 50. Would 49 just look at you and move on? or is it more like 10 out of 50 come at you but stop short? Or come at you and you use the "bear spray". Its expensive and some guy it doesn't always work so I didn't bother buying any. What about at night. Was I was in Grand Teton at a campground with other folks and some women starts screaming at 4:00 a.m. about a bear. I figured there wasn't much you could do one way or another so I just went back to sleep. I was then off by myself in Idaho and I checked in first with the ranger station. I get "Gee, you'll be in the place we've had all the grizzly troubles!" Well, I kept the old campfire going till about 11 p.m. that night.
Off hand I think the grizzly is a tougher critter, in other words a 450 lb. grizzly would kill a 450 lb. black bear. The grizzly has longer claws and to me- it always looks like the head is proportionally larger to its body than a black bear of equal weight.
The tracks are supposed to be different- not just the claws farther out on a grizzly, all the toes on the grizzly are suppose to end in a straight line- so if you put a ruler in a bear track, the ruler would be touching the back of all the toe imprints. On a black bear the "pinky" toe is over on the right of the paw and farther back so you cannot have a ruler touch the backs of all toes.
One thing I never got a square answer on is just how feisty are grizzly bears? Lets say over a period of years you see 50. Would 49 just look at you and move on? or is it more like 10 out of 50 come at you but stop short? Or come at you and you use the "bear spray". Its expensive and some guy it doesn't always work so I didn't bother buying any. What about at night. Was I was in Grand Teton at a campground with other folks and some women starts screaming at 4:00 a.m. about a bear. I figured there wasn't much you could do one way or another so I just went back to sleep. I was then off by myself in Idaho and I checked in first with the ranger station. I get "Gee, you'll be in the place we've had all the grizzly troubles!" Well, I kept the old campfire going till about 11 p.m. that night.
