Beaver Tail bags or Pouches?

[Artificer]

IOW, I wonder about the original pouches carried by those on the Frontier who went out for longer hunts of a few days to perhaps a couple of weeks, as game got scarce around their area? Perhaps, if not probably, they carried pouches that were a bit larger than the Day Pouches to carry items that were not directly needed to shoot a gun for a few shots? Of course, one could still stay in the general dimensions of the period pouches and add a gusset or even a double pouch to carry more than the minimal items needed to fire the gun for a few shots.

Or....they just carried any extra tools, etc., in their saddlebags. :grin:

Or a market wallet or snap sack, etc. Of course one might be up the creek if the horse ran away or got stolen with the extra necessary items in the saddle bags.

Gus

 

[Zonie]

It doesn't seem to me that anything larger than a "day pouch" would be needed by a hunter, even if he was going to be gone for several weeks.

He could easily have the equipment, powder, flints and balls in larger quantities carried in a larger pack.
This would allow him to leave these items along with his cooking ware, extra cloths and heavy tools in his camp while he was out wandering thru the woods on his daily hunts.

This is quite different when compared with the military and their need to move from place to place on almost a daily basis.

 

[Black Hand]

Perhaps, if not probably, they carried pouches that were a bit larger than the Day Pouches to carry items that were not directly needed to shoot a gun for a few shots? Of course, one could still stay in the general dimensions of the period pouches and add a gusset or even a double pouch to carry more than the minimal items needed to fire the gun for a few shots.

My pouch is a single pocket (6"x7.5") without a gusset and I regularly carry 25-35 62 caliber roundballs and sufficient patches to shoot them. A bag doesn't need to be large to do the job...

 

[BrownBear]

This would allow him to leave these items along with his cooking ware, extra cloths and heavy tools in his camp while he was out wandering thru the woods on his daily hunts.

Quick word of advice for anyone who does this (as I do). Bring along some bright surveyors tape and USE IT when you take off your pack and walk away from it. Natural colors are traditional and a delight. But they flat disappear when you lay them down.

Spent over 4 hours hunting my pack one day after I shed it to stalk a deer. And the deer kept drifting further and further away. Got the deer, but came very close to losing my pack as darkness closed in. :thumbsup:

 

[Artificer]

Perhaps, if not probably, they carried pouches that were a bit larger than the Day Pouches to carry items that were not directly needed to shoot a gun for a few shots? Of course, one could still stay in the general dimensions of the period pouches and add a gusset or even a double pouch to carry more than the minimal items needed to fire the gun for a few shots.

My pouch is a single pocket (6"x7.5") without a gusset and I regularly carry 25-35 62 caliber roundballs and sufficient patches to shoot them. A bag doesn't need to be large to do the job...

I agree that a bag that can carry a number of balls and patches, a spare flint or two, a powder measure and hopefully at least a screwdriver that will fit the top jaw screw of the flint cock, a worm and/or at least a ball screw; and one can get their hand in and out and find things easily, does not need to be that large.

Of course if anything went wrong beyond normal problems, they were up the creek without a paddle, as has been period documented that frontiersmen sometimes to often had guns that were not working especially on longer forays into the frontier even when they had other things in their saddle bags or on their pack horses.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

One other thing we sometimes may not consider is that frontiersmen often wore waistcoats w/pockets in them, under their "Hunting Shirts." So they may have put things in those pockets that we may put in a Shot Pouch/Hunting Pouch. Now of course if you aren't wearing a waistcoat when shooting or hunting in period dress, you would not normally have those extra pockets to carry other items.

I admit that I carry some items in my pouch that others often/usually do not carry and is why I prefer a divider in my pouch. The items in the back of the pouch are things not often or rarely used. This comes from having competed in primitive shooting matches where once you cross a line of some sort, you cannot go back to get something you don't have on you or to get a tool or piece of equipment not in your pouch or on your person. I have only had to use the mainspring tool and spare parts once or twice for myself, but I had them when I needed them and could finish the match or a hunt.

Gus

 

[Black Hand]

Bag dimensions: ~7x6.5 inches - single bag, no gusset. It is lined with a 4x4.5 pocket sewn to the rear part of the liner.

I have a leather Cows-knee tied to the strap and a pick/wisk set attached to chains (affixed to the strap)

The small pocket contains:
Flint
Steel
Whistle made from a wingbone
Hunting tags

The main pocket contains:
Leather bag containing ~30 60caliber balls when full
Tin containing pillow ticking (0.015-0.018 for rifle) and Egyptian cotton patches (0.010 for smoothbore) lubed with bear grease, worm made from clothes hanger wire and a ball-screw
Small leather bag containing 5-6 flints
Small glass bottle of bear oil
Folding knife
Awl
Small copper funnel to fill the horn
Forged pliers with one handle end filed to fit the cock/lock bolts
Cloth bag of Tow and a ~4ft piece of hemp twine tied to a hank of Tow (for cleaning)
Small mesh bag made from hemp twine that is used to carry squirrels/grouse (tied with a leather thong available to repair the ties on the Cows-knee or attach a tag)
Brass "Ranger" compass

The measure is attached to the strap of the horn and tucked into my belt when not in use

 

[BrownBear]

I admit that I carry some items in my pouch that others often/usually do not carry and is why I prefer a divider in my pouch. The items in the back of the pouch are things not often or rarely used.

That's a viable strategy, and one I resorted to before clipping the size of my bags for better field loading. Stuff breaks or wears out, and if you don't have the solution you're out of action. On a couple of bags I went so far as putting a separate small pocket with its own flap on the back of a bag, just to keep things simple inside the bag. That worked even better than a partition for my taste, but it's more planning and sewing.

Somewhere in the back of my mind I've been ticking away at a bag design with an interior "flap" near the bottom so I could put the extra stuff down below the flap with the loading supplies on top. No historic example that I know of, but an intriguing idea for a guy who's always looking for another leather project! :grin:

 

[Artificer]

My favorite pouch was made back in the Bicentennial Era, so there were a lot of things we did not know back then that we now know. I also could only afford one pouch to hold items for my Brown Bess Carbine or .45 Cal. flint rifle. So I had to "swap" some items, depending on which gun I was going to shoot.

On the front and rear sides of the gusset, I put a loop on each side. One for an adjustable powder measure with the cone on the end and the other loop for a short starter. I exchanged the short starter for the one that fit either the Brown Bess or .45 caliber flint rifle I shot. I know of no examples of such loops on period Shot Pouches and of course there is no documentation for short starters.

I also sewed some loops or small pockets on the inside of the back of the pouch for items I did not use often. This keeps them in the same place and I don't have to dig through a bunch of stuff to get something I want. (Matter of fact, I rarely have to look in my pouch to find anything while shooting and find things quickly just by feel.) None of the documented 18th century pouches have those features either, as far as I am aware, but some 18th century militia pouches and pouches for fowlers have a "gathered pocket" on the outside of the front of the bag that is covered by the flap.

Never thought about a flap for the bottom of the pouch, but wouldn't a rag or piece of leather do the same thing?

I'm currently planning one or two more pouches along with somewhat matching other leather items that are inspired by James Rogers' Ensemble in Suite, though I would not presume to directly copy his work.

When I think of going a bit too plain, I look at some of James' work and see things that are not on the regularly seen documented pouches, but are documented off paintings and other things. Some of James' work is beyond my capabilities, of course, but it demonstrates there were "fancier" pouches than the ones documented in say the 18th century material resource examples.

Of course the fancier pouches were usually the work of saddlers or other leather workers and not the average person. However, for those who had some training and/or more experience in leather work in the period, they could and almost certainly would have made fancier pouches for themselves. This is how I intend to justify a slightly fancier pouch than some of the documented examples.

My only problem is now that I can afford and have the tools and leather, I don't have as much time to work on these things for myself as I did years ago. :haha:

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Never thought about a flap for the bottom of the pouch, but wouldn't a rag or piece of leather do the same thing?

I tried both, and they shift around and mix the contents if you're active at all. Dandy for the range and competition walks, but not for an active hunter.

I made one shotgun bag with the leather flap I'm talking about. Actually made "two" of them. First time around I sewed the flap to the front panel, and that proved awkward to use. So I unsewed it, replaced the front panel and sewed a different flap onto the back panel. The first flap had been only as wide as my gusset, which also proved too narrow for its sorting job. The second flap I made twice as wide and it was fine.

Understand that a shotgun or fowling bag is bigger than my usual rifle bag. But the idea worked well enough that I'll be building a rifle bag with an inner flap at the bottom. Soon, I say. Soon! :rotf:

 

[Artificer]

That's an interesting concept, thanks for explaining it.

Gus