Bedded the tang: fit problems

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I have a TVM Virginia rifle that has been serving me well for many years. Then a few years ago I went to do my usual sight check prior to deer season and the dang thing shot about 6 inches high at 50 yards. Well in the ensuing years I had heck to pay chasing accuracy woes. I just removed the barrel and noticed that the area under the tang lost it's bedding. Evidently TVM made the inlet about 1/8-inch too deep and it looks like it was bedded. I have no idea how the bedding material was lost. Perhaps I had dismantled the gun and it dropped out without me noticing?

Anyway, I waxed up the tang, plugged the bolt-holes, and poured a little bit of epoxy in and pressed the barrel into place. It looks like it is well-bedded, however I think the barrel is shifted foward by just a tiny bit (like 1/64th or less) and the bolt holes do not align.

It appears the epoxy may be a little tough to carve out with an inletting tool.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

 

[EC121]

Tang bolts or lock bolts? The lock bolts shouldn't shift. Drill or file(small chainsaw file) the tang holes out larger or chisel( use a cheap chisel) out the epoxy and start over with the bolts(waxed) in instead of plugging the holes.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Lock bolt is what wouldn't fit. I didn't try the tang bolt yet. I need to drill out the epoxy there. Like I said, I plugged the bolt hole, but there was about 1/8" gap between the tang and the wood, so that all got filled.

I think the entire barrel shifted forward just a hair. When I pressed the barrel/tang into place, the excess epoxy squished out in the area directly behind the tang. I pushed the barrel back as best I could, but I suspect the epoxy is keeping the barrel forward a tad.

I really hope this is the answer. The gun used to make cloverleafs at 50 yards, now it's a good day if it put's 'em in 4 inches.

 

[EC121]

For an eightth of an inch I would have glued a piece of popsicle stick(good hardwood) or something under the tang first, and then reinlet the bottom of the tang.

 

[Bnewberry]

I hesitate to use the “D” word, but a rotary tool and small burr or cutter would remove the epoxy.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

For an eightth of an inch I would have glued a piece of popsicle stick(good hardwood) or something under the tang first, and then reinlet the bottom of the tang.

Good idea, I will remember this next time. I took a break for lunch and managed to remove enough epoxy to get the lock bolt through - although it doesn't meet up with the lock-hole as nicely as it had in the past. I will have to drill through the tang bolt hole to re-open it where the epoxy covered the plug.

I like the idea of waxing up the bolts and putting the epoxy in and just putting the bolts back in place. But dang, I was nervous enough that I wouldn't get the barrel out of the stock as it is! To do this I suppose you would still plug the bolt holes in the wood. Then use the bolts to push the plug out the other side.

 

[oldwood]

Any time you epoxie bed something on a m/l , wrap a thin piece of plastic shopping bag from grocery store instead of using wax , or release agent , etc.. Pour the epoxie as usual , let harden and the item pops right out in minutes. Clean up w/ Dremel tool , or whatever. No mes no fuss................oldwood

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

OK. Gun is all put back together. Can't wait for some decent weather to test it out and see if this was the problem all along. Man I really hope it is. I've wasted a lot of powder, lead, and time trying to chase this gremlin down! Well maybe not time, even when the gun isn't shooting well there's something cathartic about loading and shooting.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Are you noticing a seasonal shift in holes lining up as well? This time of year the air has been pretty dry for quite a few months in many areas of the country. Wood will have shrunk the most. Come August / September, after 6 months of more humidity it will be at it's largest dimensions.

 

[oldwood]

Remove the pins ,measure the diameter of them , take a drill bit of the same size , and drill them out. Replace each pin into the unique hole from which it came. Use a cake of Bee's wax to rub some wax into the holes before inserting each pin. The stock wood, benefits from the slight waterproofing action of the wax and the pins stay put w/o being too tight in the wood. All wood shrinks until the cells collapse totally , and shrinkage ceases. Wood on a cellular level, can still pick up moisture until cellular collapse occurs...............oldwood

 

[Britsmoothy]

In all sincerity you shouldn't just be bedding the tang. If there is nothing under the breach you may continue to have accuracy issues.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

In all sincerity you shouldn't just be bedding the tang. If there is nothing under the breach you may continue to have accuracy issues.

Not sure what you mean. Under the breach? Or behind it? I'm not sure how far up the barrel I could bed. There is no web between the barrel chanel & ramrod channel. I'd have to fill the ramrod channel, but cleaning it out afterwards might be a trick.

Behind the breech seems to be fairly tight.

 

[Britsmoothy]

It can be a fiddle sure and many a barrel is, on modern reproductions, supported only at the breach via just the tang. There is often a slight gap under the breach until contact further up the channel again.
Vibtation upon firing is disturbed/inconsistent and will contribute to difficulty in finding an acceptable load.
If you can, work out what will go under the barrel at the breach to obtain the correct tang hight.
You can use canvass or wood veneers. Once you know the thickness required and everything fits it ok they can be glued in.
Another good tip is to make sure the nipple drum or snail does not press on the lock plate when the tang is screwed down. Sometimes a little bit of filing of the lock plate is required but worth it.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

How far up the barrel channel do you need to bed? If I bed a few centimeters is that adequate? Or does the barrel need to be supported the entire length?

If it's the latter, it might seem easier to just bed the entire channel.

 

[Britsmoothy]

It depends on the tendons and pins or wedges. They should be snugging the barrel into the timber nice so it may only need a few inches from the breach end.

The principle is simple. If a tuning fork is in partial contact with something it loses its tune in a random way. Full contact and it is dulled but remains consistent....ish.

Tendons! Haha...tenons.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

It depends on the tendons and pins or wedges. They should be snugging the barrel into the timber nice so it may only need a few inches from the breach end.

How do I know? Would I have to use candle black on the barrel, pin it in place, then check the channel? How many gaps, and how big could those gaps be (I doubt you'd achieve a perfect, consistent, contact surface the entire length)?

I've read lots about how to develop loads to achieve accuracy, but I think this is the first I've EVER read anything about bedding a muzzleloader.

 

[Col. Batguano]

The thing about breech plugs and tangs is that there is a curve to the tang as it's coming back from the tab of the plug. The barrel recoils straight back. If it's not fully bedded on the sides of the tab as well as the vertical part, that curve may want to lift the breech somewhat upon recoil which can spoil accuracy. A safer way to bed it would be to fully bed the vertical parts (as well as the curve) , but then shave a slight amount off the part that may want to lift the breech on recoil.

Upon firing, that barrel will be fully set back in the stock before the ball exits the bore. The barrel and stock will be flexing too, but they should be relatively consistent.

 

[EC121]

I usually hacksaw the radius off of the tang. This allows a closer bend in the tang and avoids a humpbacked look to the wrist. It would also stop the above mentioned cam action of the recoil. Bed the breech end of the barrel plus an inch or two up the side flat/ lower oblique flat area. This will also keep cleaning fluids and oils out of the wood.

 

[Britsmoothy]

How do I know? Would I have to use candle black on the barrel, pin it in place, then check the channel? How many gaps, and how big could those gaps be (I doubt you'd achieve a perfect, consistent, contact surface the entire length)?

I've read lots about how to develop loads to achieve accuracy, but I think this is the first I've EVER read anything about bedding a muzzleloader.

Most are happy if they can keep their shots on a pie plate at 50yards. I expect better than that with a smoothbore! That is if I was allowed .... any way, pack the three inch strip either side of the rammer channel until the tang is being lifted. With the packers in place can the wedges be inserted with some encouragement.
Remember there is no need for this to be a drastic measure, no, its a very subtle thing but you may find a mediocre performing rifle suddenly is more. I like canvass.
There is no guarantees but I have never found this to make anything worse.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Most are happy if they can keep their shots on a pie plate at 50yards.

Gadzooks that would be awful from a rifle! Especially from a bench. I generally have a sense of how well I can see the target and the amount of "shake" my sight picture has. And I know I'm holding better than 6" at 50 yards.

any way, pack the three inch strip either side of the rammer channel until the tang is being lifted. With the packers in place can the wedges be inserted with some encouragement.

3 inches. There we go. I can do that. Would there be any mistake in using paper? I figure if it gets saturated with the right kind of glue it should be pretty water resistant. Or is canvas the way to go?