Been thinking the 51 needs a blade, adjustable front sight

[M. De Land]

I need to shoot her to confirm the elevation and windage correction that will be needed but I've yet to sight in an open frame gun that does not shoot high and usually to one side or the other with the factory set up. I don't like the brass pin they come with any way as they present a lousy sight picture so am thinking it's time to mill out a blade , cut a dovetail over the barrel muzzle and mill a square slot in the hammer nose V rear sight.
Some ideas to consider. I kind of like the one in the second picture on the flint pistol that might look good on a 51.

 

[M. De Land]

I need to shoot her to confirm the elevation and windage correction that will be needed but I've yet to sight in an open frame gun that does not shoot high and usually to one side or the other with the factory set up. I don't like the brass pin they come with any way as they present a lousy sight picture so am thinking it's time to mill out a blade , cut a dovetail over the barrel muzzle and mill a square slot in the hammer nose V rear sight.
Some ideas to consider. I kind of like the one in the second picture on the flint pistol that might look good on a 51.

Another fix the 51's can stand is to pull the loading lever and cut a hemisphere in the end with a ball mill. The flat end they come with is one of the reasons they quite often won't shoot conicals consistently well not being seated squarely.

 

[D Yager]

Having the proper chamfer at the chamber mouth helps a lot too.

 

[M. De Land]

Having the proper chamfer at the chamber mouth helps a lot too.

Yes, I agree as long as it's not over done to where it encourages spitting. All that's needed is to break the sharp edge and it will still cut a sharp ring of lead to insure chamber seal.
I learned that lesson (cutting to much chamfer) the hard way trying to save an eroded forcing cone of a .44 mag barrel on a model 29. Had to fit another barrel that still had the sharp cone corner profile with a bit of chamfer to make it stop spitting.

 

[nick_1]

I was shooting way right today and then noticed my front sight had moved in it's dovetail... pushed it back and super glued.. Its good to have little razor knife marks on the bbl to refrence.

 

[M. De Land]

I was shooting way right today and then noticed my front sight had moved in it's dovetail... pushed it back and super glued.. Its good to have little razor knife marks on the bbl to refrence.

Yeah that'll work! I use blue loc-tite under all my blade dovetail sights to seal out moisture and make them stay put. I can still get them loose without heat but they stay really well with that level of adhesion and the blue doesn't show up when the excess is wiped up.
I always fit or shim them to where they have to be punch driven to position.

 

[nick_1]

toyed with the idea of soldering it but then if I change loads and want to change the height again it would stink.

 

[D Yager]

Yes, I agree as long as it's not over done to where it encourages spitting. All that's needed is to break the sharp edge and it will still cut a sharp ring of lead to insure chamber seal.
I learned that lesson (cutting to much chamfer) the hard way trying to save an eroded forcing cone of a .44 mag barrel on a model 29. Had to fit another barrel that still had the sharp cone corner profile with a bit of chamfer to make it stop spitting.

Why are you wanting to cut a ring of lead off the ball? Have you ever seen any documentation from Colt, Remington or any other manufacturer of the original pistols stating a ring of lead has to be cut from a ball during loading? I have yet to see anything that specifically states you have to cut lead from a ball during loading. I mostly chalk it up to someone doing this and spreading it around with no basis whatsoever to back it up. Just because someone said this what you do 50 years ago doesn't make it true. None of my pistols shave lead on account that silly lead ring can and will bind up the cylinder. My pistols are set up with a .002 barrel/cylinder gap so there's no room for a lead ring to pass through the gap. Plus why would you want to change the weight or center of gravity on the bullet?

 

[M. De Land]

Why are you wanting to cut a ring of lead off the ball? Have you ever seen any documentation from Colt, Remington or any other manufacturer of the original pistols stating a ring of lead has to be cut from a ball during loading? I have yet to see anything that specifically states you have to cut lead from a ball during loading. I mostly chalk it up to someone doing this and spreading it around with no basis whatsoever to back it up. Just because someone said this what you do 50 years ago doesn't make it true. None of my pistols shave lead on account that silly lead ring can and will bind up the cylinder. My pistols are set up with a .002 barrel/cylinder gap so there's no room for a lead ring to pass through the gap. Plus why would you want to change the weight or center of gravity on the bullet?

I think it's a good indication of circumferential seal is why I do it and I know from experience what effect to much chamfer has on a chamber mouth and forcing cone.
The center of gravity is changed by swaging to shape as much as cutting a seal ring on a sphere is. That's why cast bullets should not be swaged very much for top accuracy. The very best are cast to within half thousands round and 3/4 +/- grain weight. That was our standard for top accuracy in mid and long range match buffalo rifle shooting. And that's in casting 500 plus grain conicals.

 

[D Yager]

And once again where is the documented proof? A ball that's swaged into place will seal as well a cut one or better. It's you pistol you load it how ever you want. I just get tired of hearing this shave a ring off the ball crap over and over when there's no documentation on it and absolutely no evidence that it seals better or prevents chain fire.

 

[M. De Land]

And once again where is the documented proof? A ball that's swaged into place will seal as well a cut one or better. It's you pistol you load it how ever you want. I just get tired of hearing this shave a ring off the ball crap over and over when there's no documentation on it and absolutely no evidence that it seals better or prevents chain fire.

The practice does produce good accuracy and is proof of an actual full circle fit to the chamber so wheres the sensible objection ?
I don't happen to believe chain fire primarily occurs from the front end but that's another issue.
I can prove at least to myself from my midrange scores that cast round rifle bullets are more accurate at 2-3 and 600 yards than are out of round cast bullets swaged down in a press to make them round.
These are a different animal from hammer swaged bullets made from blanks that are align swaged in two piece precision dies.

 

[Malamute]

The Cody museum has several examples of percussion Colts with very small dovetailed front sights, including one of the pair of engraved Navy Colts attributed to Hickok. The sights appear to be very similar to the very small front sights on Pennsylvania/Kentucky type rifles Ive seen. Track has some of various materials, they may call them pistol front sights, Id like to try a couple on my percussion revolvers.

 

[nick_1]

as short as that is it still looks taller than the little bead that was stock. Combine that with a deeper notch in the hammer and they might have gotten point of aim dialed in.

 

[Malamute]

as short as that is it still looks taller than the little bead that was stock. Combine that with a deeper notch in the hammer and they might have gotten point of aim dialed in.

Yes, my thought was he was satisfied with where one hit in relation to POA and wanted the other to hit to the same POA.

...But who knows? The original sight may have been damaged or lost and the local available gunsmithing talent came up with this to replace the front sight. The details are lost to time.

 

[1stnamebassist]

Here is one I put on my cut down Remington. It’s for some kind of rifle, not sure if it’s from an investarms kit. I filed in the dovetail and fit it in there. Seems to work ok. At least it’s windage adjustable!

 

[greg hill]

toyed with the idea of soldering it but then if I change loads and want to change the height again it would stink.

Hi Nick, I've shot a similar match as you describe when visiting my brother in SoCal. It's hosted by Escondido Rifle & Pistol Club and is usually well attended. It's a side match after B.P. rifle match.
Closer to home is a 25 & 50 yrd paper match at Lamoille Valley Sportsman Club during the VT State B.P. Championship matches that has good attendance. I also shoot a 1858 Rem.

 

[M. De Land]

Here is one I put on my cut down Remington. It’s for some kind of rifle, not sure if it’s from an investarms kit. I filed in the dovetail and fit it in there. Seems to work ok. At least it’s windage adjustable!

A couple of better shots of the sight I milled out and installed on a 62 Police. I fit a new cylinder to this gun as well. It needed a lot of work when I picked it up as it would not cycle two of the three chambers so I got it up pretty cheap.
It shoots to point of aim and functions properly now and is one of my favorite open top guns.

 

[buttap]

Me kind of sounds like putting mag wheels and a park bench on the trunk lid of a 110 hp 4 door rice rocket.

 

[M. De Land]

Me kind of sounds like putting mag wheels and a park bench on the trunk lid of a 110 hp 4 door rice rocket.

Yeah I can see your point from a nostalgic view but some of us want to hit with some precision what were shooting at !

 

[CyrusP]

Here is one I put on my cut down Remington. It’s for some kind of rifle, not sure if it’s from an investarms kit. I filed in the dovetail and fit it in there. Seems to work ok. At least it’s windage adjustable!

Ooh! We need more pics of that one please.