Beginner's first build in the planning stages

[Silent]

No better way to learn than by people who have experience already. So I'm here to ask for advice, listen (virtually), take in any info you can offer up for my first rifle build.

I've been wanting to build a rifle for a long time since my dad told me he built his from a kit my mom bought him when I was too young to remember. I'm much more ambitious than my dad, and a bit of a geek, and maybe stubborn when it comes to doing things. I want to do as much as I can from scratch.

I'm in the process of buying a stock blank and from what I've read, Dunlap is a great bet, and so far their customer service has been great.

It now boils down to what style, and that's where my confliction is. First I loved the strong curl of the butt of the Bedford, but folks said it's not the most comfortable to shoot so I gave it a pass. I've settled on two, Jacob Dickert's and John Armstrong's styles. I've just been going off of pictures, and never held either but I like the general aesthetics of both.

Does anyone have any advice, antidotes or strong opinions on either, for or against, on which I should settle? I'd love to hear all that you can offer up.

Also, if many thing bother would be not good options and have another idea, I'll ears.

I will use these for target, competition, and hunting and maybe some showing off to friends and family should it turn out well. Mostly, I just want to build one.

I'm pretty handy with most things, pay fine attention to detail, have carved a few muskie lures, have taken sculpting classes. Nothing like carving a rifle stock, but at least some 3rd cousin removed type of knowledge and experience is there, but I'd love to have some folks I can lean on when I'm left scratching my head.

And btw, I'm long winded, so thank you in advance for any info you send my way. :stir:

 

[fusil de chase]

Good starting point is to buy one of the full size plans from Track of the Wolf and study on it for a long time. They also have a lot of how to books.

TOW Armstrong plan $6.50
Don't be afraid to build a learning gun from cheap wood/parts. I am 2 years into my first build ( an uber simple gun) and I know with certainty that my second build will be way better. I got less then 250 invested in this current build and thank goodness for that if I had more invested in it, I would not be happy. As is I am getting a complete course in ML building for cheap.

This is a very enjoyable craft, worth learning and as a bonus you get more guns from your effort.

 

[Silent]

Thanks Testa for your input. I had plans to buy one of those TOW plans this week. Been looking at those for quite a while and was working on settling on one of the two rifles I had my eye on.

Being $250 in, where did you cut the costs the most?

I do have my hands on a copy of Recreating the American Long Rifle. What an incredible book! I know it will be invaluable. Are there any out there that surpass the info in the book, or highlight on things this book doesn't?

 

[fusil de chase]

used lock, good deal on a short barrel, half stock blank to suit short barrel and am making butt plate, trigger guard etc from old artillery shell brass.

 

[galamb]

I'm not "accomplished" yet, far from it.

Someday I will build an Armstrong but right now I still need quite a bit of practice - Armstrong was a "master" and to get it right will take quite some work.

If that is what really interests you I would suggest building a Maryland rifle with Emmitsburg influence.

Do work from a plan or make your own pattern and collect lots of pictures from every angle you can. It's tough working from two dimensions, but if that is all that you have you need every angle you can find.

That may sound like splitting hairs but it's much easier to build "flavored" than trying to replicate an exact rifle. You can pick what you like from a few rifles and incorporate into your ultimate product.

In general I have found that for your "box of parts" you will generally spend 600-800 bucks.

Before you buy used parts make sure you know the prices. Second hand stuff often has asking prices close to new and doesn't have the mfg warranty.

DON'T CHEAP OUT on the lock and the barrel, those are the heart of the rifle.

For a first build from scratch a straight barrel will be challenging enough, you can use a swamp the next time (and there will be a next time).

Also, get yourself a good book or two and follow the building order suggested. It may seem "out of order" but don't try to re-invent the order of operations, it will take you twice as long correcting your errors (I know).

 

[54ball]

I just want to build one.

Building is a skill set,there's almost no substitute for experience.
People have built just one spectacular rifle but it might have taken them years and they gained experience by practice. To build one like that, like I said, takes practice to gain a skill and only then do they apply it on the rifle. That takes discipline and perseverance.

Honestly if you want just one fine rifle, order from a custom builder. You'll save in the long run.

Shop and find a nice used custom gun.

Get one finished in the white, do the final finish yourself.

The outlay in proper tools and supplies adds up quick. Almost too quick to do just one.

If you do decide to try building, research and study. The building and research books are a must.

By studying the building books and doing research you can find your minimum of tools based on your skill set.

The more that's done the better off you are to a point. For example it may be worth your while to invest in a Jim Chambers premium kit rather than one less expensive. Especially if you are building just one.

Start simple. IMHO an Armstrong as an Armstrong is too ambitious for a first time build. Armstrong parts built into a simple Maryland or Southern style rifle is a different matter. The same goes for a Dikert or Beck.

 

[Silent]

I think I should have clarified that I'm in no way delusional enough to think I'll be able to recreate a rifle of those qualities on the first time out, let alone the 50th time out. I'm only narrowing in on those styles I mentioned because of various qualities I like. I know mine will be much different, and I'm content to at least have a nice rifle that fits me, shoots well, and gives me the experience to continue and make a nicer one the next time around.

I certainly won't stop at building one. Always had the bug to build.

 

[kaintuck]

tetsa said it good :thumbsup:

i say...go for it!..i have, and am now on my 9th....but i have a workshop tomcat that helps me with the hard parts...hes a genius~~~ :stir:

 

[Vaino]

"Recreating the American Longrifle" is an excellent "how to" book....was my main reference when I started building in 1977 because it has an enumerated building order. I've also got Chuck Dixon's book.

For a first LR, a parts set is a good starting point....the architecture is established, suitable parts are used and these parts sets do "teach". Dunlaps, Chambers, Pecatonica and many others supply parts sets....these do require many hours of work and some skills to complete.

Starting w/ a blank is ambitious for a first build.....although once the blank is sawed out, there's not much wood to be removed. Inletting the bbl and doing the RR work would be the main challenges and do require patience and perseverence. Using a blank requires some research as to the bbl and other parts....this can be a "fun" time looking through catalogs. A lot of time should be spent on achieving the correct architecture.....this isn't as easy as one might think.

As to the style of LR....a Lancaster would be suitable for a first build, but irregardless of what style is chosen, if it's from a blank, use all the hardware that's suitable for that style....don't mix.

Asre carving there's a caveat....most "first rifles" are better left uncarved.

Good luck w/ your "adventure"......Fred

 

[geb324]

I have built both Armstrong and a Bedford.
Bedfords are heavily adorned with inlays limited on a lock LR, the only one that makes a Bedford Lock.
Armstrong you have more options. Either way Track
has all the furniture you will need for either. Don't be in
hurry buy parts as you have funds.

 

[gunmaker43]

Gunsmith of Grenville co. is a great tutorial. $40 from TOW. Dickert or Armstrong ? Very good rifles for a project. Lots a pic's of them out there. Get after it--and don't be silent about it--we like pictures...Tom

 

[sean30ber]

Absolutely go for it. You cant gain experience if you dont put hand to wood. I got several books and Turpin's dvd. Did lots of studying then went for it. I was nervous about the cost and messing it up. Take your time. Walk away when your frustrated or you feel like it has just become a chore. That is when you mess up big. Then when you get to the end dont get all excited and speed the finish. You will mess up when you thought it was all over. Ask questions. These guys are outstanding and have been a huge help to me. This is what I accomplished with my first and second with the help of the forum. Its addictive, I'm starting my third, A Hawken full stock. Good Luck

First:


Second:

 

[Silent]

Again, thanks to everyone who's offered up advice. I've been pouring over info as much as I could for what seems the past few years as I've been gathering everything I need, as well as cash to get this started.

To start, as mentioned, I don't need everything, but would lock, stock and barrel be a good start, as I'm sure I'll be quite busy with those installments for quite a while, but I don't want to place something and realize later I needed something else as a reference point, or something of the sort.

Also, what's everyone's preferred tool for shaping the stock (rasps, files, axes, spokeshave...)? Or all of the above?

 

[sean30ber]

Not sure about the rest but my #1 shaping tool is a Microplane with a flat and round insert @$25, cuts the wood instead of ripping it. Removes a lot of wood fast and clean so be careful. I started with a few simple gouges and straight chisels. Several Nichols files, mill and double cut. A hole lot of sand paper of various grades and a good sanding block. Carpenters square, small bubble level and a hand drill with a built in level. I have a whole lot more now but you don't need much to get started. The rest is just tools to make building more convenient.

Good set of starting Palm chisels. Cheap. Keep them sharp like a razor and you will enjoy your work. http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2...dled-Carving-Tool-Set-5-piece-Model-1293.aspx

Microplane:

 

[Birddog6]

Before ya build Anything, ya need to shoulder about 10 dif. styles & see what fits ya. Probably at least if not more than 50% of the shooters cannot properly & comfortably shoot a Bedford rifle. That being said, it is a real bummer to spend 200 hours on something to sit in the closet & say "Yep, there she is" ! Some Lehigh rifles don't fit all, some Tenn. rifles don't fit all, etc.

I think the most forgiving style to build would be a Lancaster. IMHO And you can build it plain or fancy & adjust the drop for you & etc.

BUT........ you need a starting point & that is acquired by actually Shouldering some, to know what fits YOU.

Keith Lisle

 

[sean30ber]

Sound advice! :applause:

 

[galamb]

Yes, agree with Keith.

I wanted a Hawken, more specifically Kit Carson's version.

Turned out nice (far from perfect but I thought it was sweet), custom barrel, 54 cal 31" tapered. Worked from a pattern - shouldered and held real well.

And it weighed almost 11 pounds. Ok, only 11 pounds but I hunt dense hardwoods covering hilly/rocky ground.

After humping it over hill and dale for a season I sold it and built a more suitable 8'ish pound Ohio and was far happier.

So absolutely try as many styles as you can "for fit". And consider how you will use it. That may lead you to a style you (initially) wouldn't of considered.

 

[Lou_D]

I got Turpin's DVD and am just about ready to go for my first build. I was thinking about TOW's TVLLE. Is that the second pic? Looks sweet.

 

[sean30ber]

Yes it is. Track didnt have any stocks when I got the parts set so I got the stock in 44 inch barrel channel from Pecatonica. Its dull in the pic with only a coat of oil on it. Im still rubbing BLO on it.

 

[Silent]

Thanks for all the advice so far. Moving along a bit, I purchased a stock blank from Dunlap and got an email that says it's been delivered. Now for the barrel, and I'm thinking Green Mountain, straight octagon, 7/8th.

To get just a parts list idea, I'm following the kit parts list from TOW for the Jacob Dickert, and though I'm not going to shoot for a perfect reproduction, it's at least a style I can work with for now while I'm still researching a few things. I'm not going for the whole kit all at once so I can work at it a bit more economically as it will take a while anyway.

Now that I have the stock, I can start working on a game plan.

I was going to post the pictures Dunlap sent me, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how to post pictures. I want to undertake a rifle build but can't post pictures. Go figure.