Belt Pouch

[BrownBear]

Was planning to make my own Leather Strop, whats the best leather to use, sued or reg veg tan? Got lots of scraps.

I like a hard temper for stops, so I'd lean to your 8oz veggie. I'd sure back it with something rigid like a wood scrap, then lay it on a solid surface, and do your "stropping" with the awl onto the rouged leather.

 

[NeilMacleod]

Yup Thanks!

 

[Artificer]

OK, a period belt pouch for a fire starting kit from the 1820's period.

Is your fire starting kit kept in some kind of tin? If so, you can use a soft leather.

If not, you may want to look into using veg tan of maybe 4-5 oz. thickness.

Though the circa 1755 Lemuel Lyman Belt Pouch is much earlier than your period, this basic style of belt pouch would easily hold a fire starting kit as it was originally intended for carrying shot or round balls. Below is a link to forum member CaptJas aka James Roger's site. You can scroll down to some examples he made of these types of pouches. Also, some of his pouches are decorated with period correct stampings, in case you are interested.
http://fowlingpiece.blogspot.com/

"Wet formed" veg tan belt pouches of similar or slightly varied style would also be correct for such a belt pouch in the 1820's.

Personally back when I was doing Buckskinner/Mountain Man in the 1970's, I made what was basically a Native American Pipe Bag and folded the top over a belt and used an antler button to secure the top to the lower part of the bag. Pipe bags are basically long and somewhat narrow flat rectangular buckskin bags with long fringe on the bottom. Someone else decorated it in the Crow Indian style for me using pony beads. I carried my modern wallet, car keys, money, etc. in it.

Gus

 

[hawkeye2]

Here is another Stohlman book that is a must have specially for a newbie as it describes the tools and their use and care.

https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/leathercraft-tools-book

 

[BrownBear]

Oh yeah. Stohlman was a phenomenon and left so much useful stuff in his wake. This one is also good to have in your rack. Actually it's one volume in a set of three. If you want to make more than shooting bags, the info you need is probably in one of the three.

 

[NeilMacleod]

Thanks for the great info!
I have Stohlman book 1 and thats has allot of great stuff, I still need to do a case for my Mico4/3rds so will be looking at his camera cases when I get to it.
I also have "How to make Bags and Pouches" by Jim R Simmons. Lots of nice stuff in their and a "Strike-a-Light" pouch is included, their are no dates listed in his book. He does refer to "Mountain Men and Frontiersmen" Pouches, used for BP accessories. The "Shooting" pouch is similar to the Lemuel Lyman design.
The James Rogers sight has some nice stuff, saved it for reference, I like those Pouchlets, been thinking how to incorporate pockets for powder measure etc..
Thanks!

Il be using the 5oz (2.3mm) I have as show in my bags posted, the deer skin and buffalo dont know what to do with them yet, the buffalo is supposed to be for Mukluks.

 

[Artificer]

Sorry, forgot to mention that CaptJas aka James Rogers' stuff is also sewn like they did things in the 17th and 18th centuries and that is another good reason to closely examine the articles he makes.

Most of we non apprentice trained leather workers make mistakes that trained workers are taught not to make and/or we don't do things quite like they did back then.

Eric Myall, who was the Saddler at Colonial Williamsburg for 22 years, is a friend and mentor of James. A year or so ago, James helped me obtain a full set of the 18th century leather working DVD's that Eric made. I was elated with them to learn many little things and a couple of larger things. While Eric's DVD's are not for every modern leather worker, they are fabulous for anyone wishing to make 18th century leather work correctly.

Now, since leather work did not change hardly at all between 18th century and the 1820's, if you find you want to do more period correct leather work, I heartily recommend Eric's DVD's.

Gus

P.S. Some day when I grow up, I hope to make all my leather work as good as James Rogers does.

 

[NeilMacleod]

Thanks!
I do want to make the real product. As they say Practice , Practice, Practice. Once I understand the mechanics then I can reproduce the proper product.
This is all I found on Eric myall http://www.history.org/Publications/videos/index.cfm

Jimm Simmons book is well detailed in making pouches and the patterns includes do resemble the period products, the belt pouch and strke-a-light.

 

[BrownBear]

This is all I found on Eric myall http://www.history.org/Publications/videos/index.cfm

Here ya go.

 

[NeilMacleod]

Great thanks!

 

[Artificer]

This is all I found on Eric myall http://www.history.org/Publications/videos/index.cfm

Here ya go.

Thanks for adding that Brown Bear.

Dragonsfire,

Sorry, forgot to mention one book on making 18th century hunting pouches (aka Shot Pouches/Bags in the period) that would probably be better to purchase before buying many of Eric's DVD's. (Then after getting this book, buy Eric's DVD's as you need them or all at once if you prefer.)

I chose this link for the book, as it has different "views" you can click on to see some of what is in the book.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partdetail.aspx/49/1/BOOK-R18-CHP

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Oh yeah. That's my bible.

Another very good book is Madison Grant's "The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch. A pure treasure trove of originals.

One thing I found when using Grant: The repro in the many photos is pretty dark, so details can be hard to see. I scan the photo in question, then go to Photoshop and play with the contrast and "curves" to lighten or darken specific areas. It's amazing how much detail is hidden away in the printing process of the book. A bag that looks mostly black in the book can be rendered to show individual stitching in many cases.

 

[NeilMacleod]

Great looking Books thanks, will add to the list. Slowly narrowing down what I need. Wolf has the best prices for the fire starters too, unless you guys have other recommendations.

Picked up these today

 

[Claude Mathis]

You may find the centers of those large antler "slices" to be soft. That means, they may rip out when used as buttons and too much force is applied to them.

 

[NeilMacleod]

Ok thanks, I was thinking the long pieces as pegs holding the flaps as Ive seen but, not necessary as things progress.

 

[jeremiah ingraham]

T.C. Albert's book is a great step by step guide with several patterns that you can use as well. I have made a few from his book and they have turned out pretty good. I still have a long way to go but his book is great for any beginner.
I also saw that Ken Scott has a double DVD (Recreating a Kentucky Rifle Hunting Bag with Ken Scott) sold by American Pioneer Video http://americanpioneervideo.com/
I have not seen the video but is should be a great reference as well.
Just practice and as time goes on you will learn what works best for you.

I hope this helps.
Jeremiah

 

[NeilMacleod]

Thanks, looks great

http://kenscottpouches.blogspot.ca/

 

[Crewdawg445]

Antler makes a terrible button, you will find once exposed to the elements the center will essentially rot out very quick, Claude already has pointed that out above. Pewter or wood would be more appropriate if one must use a button.

A simple brain tanned thong would be better suited.

 

[BrownBear]

Bud of mine is all spun up on using antler for buttons. Just his thing, and he's been doing it for close to 40 years.

But experience has taught him lots of lessons. The core is an issue like everyone is pointing out. My bud has overcome it by making a rig to inject epoxy into the cores front and back. A whole lot of rigamarole, but it makes him happy and the results are sure nice. I've contented myself with buttons, mostly brass, to recreate those in use during the same period in history. They're out there.

 

[Artificer]

Back in the 70's, I sawed antler into discs with the pith in the center like some folks still do. (I was lucky to have done mine on a band saw.) The problem was not only the pith doesn't wear well, but also that wasn't how they made buttons out of antler or bone through the 19th century.

Taking bone as the example, they cut the bone along the length and scraped out the marrow to make "sheets" of material. (The marrow was usually used to "butter" their toast and in soup/stew stocks and other forms of cooking. Even the rich liked marrow and there are some surprisingly expensive silver marrow scoops in many households of the rich.) They could soften the sheets of bone by heating and/or boiling in oil and press them with a kind of vise to flatten the sheets to make flat buttons.

To make a strong antler button, they would usually use the solid tips of the tines and leave them "au natural" or shape them as desired, normally by filing. They could have drilled holes in the antler for the thread using the period drill bits for metal, but more than likely just heated iron rod and burned the holes into the tough material. Of course, this took more labor than a wood button to make, so they were not nearly as common as wood or other buttons.

Gus