Best flintlock for low cost build

[kansas_volunteer]

I have a stock I bought decades ago it's soft maple I believe. The style is Berks County, with a strong Roman nose butt. I can see faint figure. The forend is almost finished the lock area is nearly square. There is plenty of wood to work with. The problem is there is tearout in the grain in the forend that I won't be able to work out due to how closely it's already shaped.

I have a barrel I'm not using and my thought is to make a farmer's gun or barn gun. Something extremely plain and simple, using the opportunity to develop my skills inletting the lock, trigger and such.

My question is, is there a flintlock that pricewise might be suitable for what amounts to an otherwise inexpensive build. Would a percussion be better? I know, you may say why waste my time on on not so great wood, but I think I can make a rayon purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[Elnathan]

I believe that with a few exceptions that run higher than the average, pretty much all flintlocks that are worth putting on a gun cost the same. So pony up your $175 and pick your style and preferred manufacturer.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Here is a good page with pictures that when clicked on give close-up details of a Berks County Rifle

Now with that in mind and assuming that you have a very similar shaped stock, a good choice would be a Delux Siler by Chambers, or a Golden Age era lock would be very good locks for you.

They don't have the tiny "tail" that the lock on the original rifle in the first link has while the original lock has a very plain lock plate, so if you wanted something with a tail, the Classic Late Ketland has the tail though it's an early 19th century style lock and the exterior of the pan is rounded, not rectangular as you see on the original.

So there isn't one that's a prefect match for this particular Berks' County rifle, but any of those three would do you fine when it comes to performance.

LD

 

[Billnpatti]

Don't buy a cheap lock, they are nothing but a waste of your money and a pain in the butt. A good lock such as an L&R or a Chambers will cost in the range of $150 to $175 and they are worth it. Buying a lock is like buying tools, avoid the cheap crap like it was a snake and buy only the good stuff. If you waste your money on a cheap lock, you will soon be having to come up with the money for a good replacement.

 

[Col. Batguano]

One of the characteristics of Berks County guns is a somewhat "pinched wrist". That means it's somewhat less tall near the nose of the comb than forward to the trigger guard. That also produces something of a "breech hump" too. Virginia rifles and Dauphin County rifles also seem to share that characteristic, so it's not unique to Berks guns.

I really don't know what is the proper profile for the upper forestock. Some stocks seem to be somewhat egg shaped, or rounded, and some seem more triangular (like Lehighs generally are).

Others are addressing the parts quality issue, so there is no need for me to chime in here. But in general, flinters are more finicky when it comes to their locks than cap guns are. You will want a lock that will work, so a few extra bucks for a high quality one may be money well spent.

 

[hanshi]

Don't buy a cheap lock, they are nothing but a waste of your money and a pain in the butt. A good lock such as an L&R or a Chambers will cost in the range of $150 to $175 and they are worth it. Buying a lock is like buying tools, avoid the cheap crap like it was a snake and buy only the good stuff. If you waste your money on a cheap lock, you will soon be having to come up with the money for a good replacement.

Excellent advice and I agree. :thumbsup: +2

 

[Artificer]

Buying a GOOD lock for a few more bucks will save even more money than paying to have work done on or working a poorer lock so it will work correctly and then still possibly having to replace it.

:thumbsup: +3

Gus

 

[kansas_volunteer]

I've been looking and maybe one of the flint to percussion conversion locks might be a more appropriate style lock to use for my project. By itself the stock falls well into the low end of anybody's price range. Using the conversion lock, and minimum of brass furniture I could get close to getting all the metal parts for around $200, not toomuch to sink into the stock.

The stock comes closest to being a Golden Age Berks County design, but the butt is too narrow. Checking agaist pics in the TOTW catalog i can find only a couple of butt plates that are close to right. Trigger guards aren't a problem

The main idea behind this project is to get practice doing inletting in the lock area and refining the butt stock. I already know how to spend a lot of money, and want to try to keep the urge under control.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Here is an authentically styled Berks county Reading gun that might help.

 

[Col. Batguano]

As always, beautiful work Dave.

How ever did you resist the urge and desire to NOT engrave it or otherwise decorate it with your signature flair for tasteful embellishment?

 

[Col. Batguano]

As always, beautiful work Dave.

How ever did you resist the urge and desire to NOT engrave it or otherwise decorate it with your signature flair for tasteful embellishment?

 

[Col. Batguano]

As always, beautiful work Dave.

How ever did you resist the urge and desire to NOT engrave it or otherwise decorate it with your signature flair for tasteful embellishment?

 

[dave_person]

Hi David,
Because Haga and his associates in Reading did not usually engrave their guns at least during the Rev War and early "golden age" period. The rifle was for Morgan's Rifle Corps so I wanted to keep it in correct historical context. In addition, to make the work look like it was done in a nonfussy workmanlike manner, I restricted my time doing any carving or decorating. I allowed myself no more than 2 hours per section to draw my carving design on the wood, cut it, and clean it up ready for stain. Of course, I had my designs worked out beforehand but I wanted the work to look like the product of a master craftsman making a living from his trade not a hobbyist who can afford to be a perfectionist.

dave

dave

 

[MSW]

Don't buy a cheap lock, they are nothing but a waste of your money and a pain in the butt. A good lock such as an L&R or a Chambers will cost in the range of $150 to $175 and they are worth it. Buying a lock is like buying tools, avoid the cheap crap like it was a snake and buy only the good stuff. If you waste your money on a cheap lock, you will soon be having to come up with the money for a good replacement.

What he said - bigtime!!

cheap tools sxck - no polite way to say it ...

buying an "el- cheap- o" lock will just prove a false economy in the end.

 

[kansas_volunteer]

In reading Kauffman's The Pennsylvania-kentucky Rifle I find the butt plates on Berks County rifles were thin, and the extensions over the top of the stock short. All the pictures I'm finding seem to show butt plates of average thicknesses as those cast today, and the extensions more or less of the same length as those cast today. Even those in the book seem typical of todays styles. Can anyone elaborate on this?

I really do appreciate the pictures posted. They help me visualize the work I have to do.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Like most of the long rifle "schools" in PA, Berks county styles changed from colonial times into the 19th century. Also, within Berks county there were several distinct local styles such as those guns by the Angstadt family or guns from Reading that were likely influenced by Wolfgang Haga (Hachen). Generally, colonial and Rev War period Berks county rifles were very thick in the butt stock, often 2" wide. The buttplate return was often heavy and not particularly short. Rifles 18 and 20-25 in "Rifles of Colonial America: Vol 1" are excellent examples of early Berks guns. The famous rifle by John Schreit (#18) is extensively engraved, which was unusual for that time and place. After the Rev War guns became thinner and the famous curved "Roman nose" shape became more common. Henry Kauffman's book was ground breaking but is now outdated. Also, the photo quality and views were poor. You'll find better examples in Shumway's "Rifles of Colonial America" and Hornberger's "Berks County Longrifles and Gunmakers".

dave

 

[Scota4570]

Large Siler?

Get a copy of the Track catalog. Make copies of the locks. Cut them out and see how they fit on your stock.

No such thing as a good-cheap flintlock.

 

[hanshi]

Beautiful work; that rifle is gorgeous.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Hanshi,
Thanks. If you and others will indulge me, that rifle has a nice story. My brother and I were asked to appraise some guns made by Malcolm Dick for his son after Malcolm died in 2013. Malcolm was a naval architect and almost all Navy surface ships built after 1952 are influenced by his designs. He was a founding member of Morgan's Rifle Corps and the Brigade of the American Revolution. I was influenced by him way back in the late 1970s. Anyway, after appraising guns for his son, the son brought out a maple stock that was roughed out as a Reading gun and had the barrel partly inletted. It was probably the last gun Malcolm worked on and his son, Adam, wanted me to have it for my help. After taking the stock and talking with my brother, Nils, who knew Malcolm well and is a member of Morgan's, I decided to build the gun as a historically correct rifle purchased by Morgan's Corps from makers in Reading, PA (which they did). So I built up the gun and signed it "Person and Dick" as a memorial to Malcolm. Inside the patchbox lid, I soldered a silver plate upon which I engraved "Malcolm Dick, historiker (historian), lehrer (teacher), und buchsenmacher (gunmaker). I then donated the rifle to Morgan's Rifle Corps to be used as a loaner to new members who cannot initially afford a custom long rifle. It serves that purpose to this day.

dave

 

[excess650]

I usually think of "Reading rifle" when speaking of Berks County, so immediately "see" a thick, sturdy rifle. This linked rifle is more closely Reading Berks than Lancaster.
http://www.aspenshadeltd.com/images/rifles/sp/sp.jpg

I see the lock as atypical, and would more expect something more Germanic, but the stock is pretty much what I would "see".