They would be comfortable even in there.
Best for moccasins?
- Thread starter Lonesome Charley
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From what I have read, moose hide (when it could be obtained) was preferred, but the chrome-tanned leather most widely available now will be different from the smoked braintan that was used back in the day. I think @Lonesome Charley mentioned the use of old lodge skins. I have heard of this, but can't remember where. I heard it called "old tipi top," from the well-smoked upper part of the lodge. Not only was it thoroughly smoked, it was as stretched out as it was going to get, and was therefore a very stable leather, and much used as a backing for beaded strips as on shirts and leggings.
I also recall reading that when Lewis and Clark wintered over in the Pacific Northwest (at Fort Clatsop, I think), their hunters killed a number of elk, and the skins were specifically prepared for moccasins for the anticipated trip home.
Moccasins wore out pretty fast. Most people carried spares, and moccasin repair was described as an almost nightly activity in the trappers' camps. I've found several references indicating that a bunch of sinew was routinely carried in the shot pouch, and an awl was attached to the strap. The fact that these two items would be carried in the hunter's shot pouch, on his person rather than in his "possible sack" back in the camp, suggests to me that the awl and sinew were used pretty frequently.
There was a brilliant article by Rex Norman about moccasins used in the Rocky Mountain fur trade in the March/April 2003 issue of MUZZLELOADER magazine. Last time I checked, the back issue was still available, and worth the price for the moccasin article alone. Rex did impeccable research, and his article pretty much agreed with what @tenngun wrote in post #20, in that the pucker/vamp and side seam moccasins were likely most common. This illustration is from the article:
I don't see the puckered toe seam on Mariano Medina's moccasins, but they sure do look like the one on the left, in the illustration above:
This illustration from Harper's magazine (November, 1879) shows an old hunter named Antonio Lopez. The picture was in an article about ranches in southern Colorado. Antonio was too old for manual labor at that time (1879), and had been hired by the ranch manager as a kindness. He was given odd jobs around the place that were within his capabilities. Like many of the old trappers and hunters, he clung to his old habits, including his "old-fashioned St. Louis rifle...," and his moccasins:
The Rex Norman article referenced above has the best instructions I have ever seen for making these, and I would agree with brother tenngun that this style of moccasin is probably under-represented.
Good luck with your project! We'll be wanting some pictures once you get 'em made.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
I also recall reading that when Lewis and Clark wintered over in the Pacific Northwest (at Fort Clatsop, I think), their hunters killed a number of elk, and the skins were specifically prepared for moccasins for the anticipated trip home.
Moccasins wore out pretty fast. Most people carried spares, and moccasin repair was described as an almost nightly activity in the trappers' camps. I've found several references indicating that a bunch of sinew was routinely carried in the shot pouch, and an awl was attached to the strap. The fact that these two items would be carried in the hunter's shot pouch, on his person rather than in his "possible sack" back in the camp, suggests to me that the awl and sinew were used pretty frequently.
There was a brilliant article by Rex Norman about moccasins used in the Rocky Mountain fur trade in the March/April 2003 issue of MUZZLELOADER magazine. Last time I checked, the back issue was still available, and worth the price for the moccasin article alone. Rex did impeccable research, and his article pretty much agreed with what @tenngun wrote in post #20, in that the pucker/vamp and side seam moccasins were likely most common. This illustration is from the article:
I don't see the puckered toe seam on Mariano Medina's moccasins, but they sure do look like the one on the left, in the illustration above:
This illustration from Harper's magazine (November, 1879) shows an old hunter named Antonio Lopez. The picture was in an article about ranches in southern Colorado. Antonio was too old for manual labor at that time (1879), and had been hired by the ranch manager as a kindness. He was given odd jobs around the place that were within his capabilities. Like many of the old trappers and hunters, he clung to his old habits, including his "old-fashioned St. Louis rifle...," and his moccasins:
The Rex Norman article referenced above has the best instructions I have ever seen for making these, and I would agree with brother tenngun that this style of moccasin is probably under-represented.
Good luck with your project! We'll be wanting some pictures once you get 'em made.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
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Stay away from any of the Dyer types, with top grain leather. Or anything with a rawhide sole. They are like a ski on pine needles in the mountains.
I prefer brain tanned deer.
If you use elk and it gets wet, it stretches to twice as long as your foot. I was surprised at both moose and buffalo, they didn't wear nearly as well as I thought they would.
Moccasins wear out fast, just a fact of life. That's why you see so many accounts of people finding discarded moccasins along the trails.
I prefer brain tanned deer.
If you use elk and it gets wet, it stretches to twice as long as your foot. I was surprised at both moose and buffalo, they didn't wear nearly as well as I thought they would.
Moccasins wear out fast, just a fact of life. That's why you see so many accounts of people finding discarded moccasins along the trails.
I’ve worn through pretty thick cowhide sole in two pice hard sole style in a couple of days on local trails. Ozark is an old Indian word that translates’ hard ground’’, all up hill from here’ or ‘crap load of rocks’ depending on the sentence.
I went to shoes about fifteen years ago.
This is an interesting thread and area of study, as one who has sinew sewn brain tanned and smoked moccasins for personal use over the years. I shifted from two piece moccasins with brain tanned and smoked mule deer and bison hide uppers and partially brain tanned bison soles to side seam moccasins a few years ago. The latter apparently were the type used by most tribes on the plains and in the western mountains in the late 18th and early 19th centuries and are far more comfortable and afford the most traction, unless walking through prickly pear patches!
I agree from experience and also from gleaned tribal knowledge in moose country that well brain tanned and smoked moose hides are the best period material for such foot wear, being both thick and having a dense fiber structure. Many tribes smoked moose hides in their raw state first and then again following brain tanning and these double "smoke tanned" hides are considered by them to be the best for footwear and any water repellent and durable outerwear, including mittens and coats. I own a pair of old moose hide mittens tanned and smoked this Native way and they seem to be indestructible and are very warm, along with old HBC blanket liners and grizzly hide cuffs.
Attaching here a few photos of the Native brain and smoke tanned moose hide, side seam moccasins I sewed with moose sinew and an old awl some years ago, still going strong! Pounding the seams with old stone pounding tools helped soften and flatten those areas. The last photos are of brain tanned bison winter moccasins in the making, awl sewn with bison sinew and as warm as it gets for period footwear, which will soon be encased in thick brain tanned and smoked bull moose hide outer side seam moccasins weather-proofed with a mixture of bear tallow and beeswax. This will be my first time applying such a mixture to moccasins, so any guidance is welcome from those who have done this!
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Here is
a pair I made recently using 9-10 oz bison hide, they are the western side seam style
I live south of you in Vaughn WA, been doing rondies here for over 25 years, one thing to remember is wet grass, very slippery in mocs, I have seen more than a couple folks bust their A$% and a wrist or 2 slipping on the morning dew.
Nothing existed like that back in the era.
Phil Coffins
69 Cal.
A very good book for making moccasins is
“Craft Manual of North American Indian Footwear”
By George M White
He goes into detail for many styles and regions and explains how to determine the size for a good fit. He also explains how the leather is layed out to make use of its grain to advantage. There is detailed instructions on types of sewing and where to use them. Good illustrations threw out.
79446C0D-41CF-4EDB-A24F-BBC29B2C7FE4 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
“Craft Manual of North American Indian Footwear”
By George M White
He goes into detail for many styles and regions and explains how to determine the size for a good fit. He also explains how the leather is layed out to make use of its grain to advantage. There is detailed instructions on types of sewing and where to use them. Good illustrations threw out.
79446C0D-41CF-4EDB-A24F-BBC29B2C7FE4 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
I wouldn't think of starting on moccasins without a copy of White's "Craft Manual" that Phil cites at hand, although that Rex Norman article that Bob referenced sounds very much worth pursuing.
MTNJMT, your footwear looks incredibly comfortable!
MTNJMT, your footwear looks incredibly comfortable!
Those are NOT western side seam. Closer to the pucker toe types.
Thank you, Bill. It takes effort to awl and sinew sew but that and quality brain tanned and smoked hides can make for very comfortable and accurate footwear.
Black_Feather
69 Cal.
Those are exactly how I like to make my side seams height and all, only difference (and I don’t know if it is pc for the time period) but I add a welt to all the seams. Those are really nice!A very good book for making moccasins is
“Craft Manual of North American Indian Footwear”
By George M White
He goes into detail for many styles and regions and explains how to determine the size for a good fit. He also explains how the leather is layed out to make use of its grain to advantage. There is detailed instructions on types of sewing and where to use them. Good illustrations threw out.
Matt Soultz
32 Cal
Id say since you are portraying the western fur trade rawhide sole moccs would be best. My persona is east of the Mississippi so I made centerseam pucker toe moccs and then resolved them with Buffalo split leather. They came out pretty good. Still gotta finish the other one.
