Best for moccasins?

[Lonesome Charley]

I’m just getting started on my traditional clothing and decided to start with a few pair of moccasins. So what is the best type of leather for them? Buffalo? Moose? Elk? Deer? What weight? My persona is western fur trade. I have an affinity for the southwest but live in the Northwest. I have a source for all of the above leathers as remnants but enough to make moccasins.
Thanks
LC

 

[Phil Coffins]

Buffalo can be the thickest and will protect your feet from rocks and thorns. Elk is lighter and softer and deer is lightest. All were used, how tough are your feet?

 

[Lonesome Charley]

Thanks. What are your thoughts on double sole moccasins? Mark Baker talks about them. My feet aren’t too tough. Lol.

 

[bang]

I have 2 pair. One, for warm weather, is 8-10 oz leather with 12-14 oz sole with added arch support and fairly snug.
The other is all 12+ and made bigger for wearing heavy socks for cold weather. They look a bit bulky but will serve the purpose.

 

[Lonesome Charley]

View attachment 23750 I have 2 pair. One, for warm weather, is 8-10 oz leather with 12-14 oz sole with added arch support and fairly snug.
The other is all 12+ and made bigger for wearing heavy socks for cold weather. They look a bit bulky but will serve the purpose.
View attachment 23752

Thanks for the pictures.

 

[bang]

Thanks for the pictures.

I made the top pair when I was 17. 45 years ago. Only change was the lowers because my feet grew. Originally had shag carpet insoles. Made the lowers with the heavy stuff.
The other pair I made last week.

 

[Cruzatte]

I have used elk and moose. My elk moccasins lasted for nearly twenty years. I made two pair of moose hide moccasins three years ago, I believe. They should last until I go into the retirement home.

 

[Lonesome Charley]

I have used elk and moose. My elk moccasins lasted for nearly twenty years. I made two pair of moose hide moccasins three years ago, I believe. They should last until I go into the retirement home.

Thanks, good to know.

 

[Treestalker]

I bought a kit from Tandy leather 'Bullhide Moc Kit' and put them together when I was about 15. Wore them 'til I went in the Navy, got out and wore them for years after, never did wear them out, gave them to somebody and they still had life in them. Of course when I went back to buy another kit, all they had was some thin stuff only good for patching material. Oh Well.

 

[bang]

I bought a kit from Tandy leather 'Bullhide Moc Kit' and put them together when I was about 15. Wore them 'til I went in the Navy, got out and wore them for years after, never did wear them out, gave them to somebody and they still had life in them. Of course when I went back to buy another kit, all they had was some thin stuff only good for patching material. Oh Well.

Really get better leather if you just buy a section of hide. I'm sure patterns are still available but I just traced my foot on cardboard and flipped it for the other side. I made a form to shape cased leather out of 2x. Pattern to finish took about 30 hours. My first pair were Tandy kit too. Took a lot less time.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have been told (no personal experience) that groundhog hide is the toughest stuff you will ever find. I kill several year but never skinned one out. I try to protect my mocs by avoiding walking on crushed rock, ashpalt and concrete.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've been behind a desk for 20 years...I found Moose was the best for me...

I know that groundhog rawhide is very much desired ifin you're makin' a banjo head...

LD

 

[Lonesome Charley]

What style of Moccasin do you think is best? Pucker toe? hard sole? center seam?
LC

 

[teakmtn]

What style of Moccasin do you think is best? Pucker toe? hard sole? center seam?
LC

Since you intend to go Western Fur Trade, and if you desire to be fairly Historically Correct, then the predominant style would be side seam Mocs. Next design that would work would be the pucker toe with a vamp of red or blue trade wool. Thats it. For leather the absolute best is braintan SMOKED Moose, or braintan SMOKED Buffalo. Stay away from Elk as it is way too stretchy. If you decide to go with Moose or Buff, you can do the tops with braintan deer, it's thinner and less stiff so wraps around your ankle better.

 

[Lonesome Charley]

Since you intend to go Western Fur Trade, and if you desire to be fairly Historically Correct, then the predominant style would be side seam Mocs. Next design that would work would be the pucker toe with a vamp of red or blue trade wool. Thats it. For leather the absolute best is braintan SMOKED Moose, or braintan SMOKED Buffalo. Stay away from Elk as it is way too stretchy. If you decide to go with Moose or Buff, you can do the tops with braintan deer, it's thinner and less stiff so wraps around your ankle better.

Thanks for the great advice. This is what I had been thinking.
LC

 

[buford87]

I've been behind a desk for 20 years...I found Moose was the best for me...

I know that groundhog rawhide is very much desired ifin you're makin' a banjo head...

LD

I remember my dad saying when he was a boy they use groundhog skin for their boot laces because it was such a tough hide...............watch yer top knot...............

 

[Mad Irish Jack]

I've made western side seams from buffalo and deer, suggest Buff. Do center seams from it also. Elk stretches to easily when wet and will probably increase 2 sizes. You can use deer but it wears easily and is great for indoor events (kindof slipper)s. The natives used leather for items the leathers properties suited. Neck and back's thick leather and sturdier properties for those required needs. Clothing needed more supple and flexible needs. Whatever bags or pouches were used for dictated what leather properties were needed. My hard wear and period and historical portrayals dictated the Ft Ligonier Boot. My reenacting group was lucky enough to be given a tour of the Ft Ligonier Historical Society archieve storage and were able to photo and obtain copies of documentation on the making and construction of those artifacts. If anyone wants copies, PM me and I'll tell you what I need to send you copies. It isn't money. Instructions and time is hard, but time consuming part. Making them and then wearing them is the rewarding part.
.

Summer Ft Ligonier boots, check out the moose neck back soles thickness property. I purchased the sole rectangles as large Moose neck sole rectangles from Lietzau in Minnesota. Way back in the late 1980's
Ft Ligs Summer on left, winters on rightwinter pak soles on Ft Ligonier winter boot
Winter boot profile (note laced on collar NOT sewn on) This is PC on these. Buffalo neck back soles, not moose.

 

[Lonesome Charley]

I've made western side seams from buffalo and deer, suggest Buff. Do center seams from it also. Elk stretches to easily when wet and will probably increase 2 sizes. You can use deer but it wears easily and is great for indoor events (kindof slipper)s. The natives used leather for items the leathers properties suited. Neck and back's thick leather and sturdier properties for those required needs. Clothing needed more supple and flexible needs. Whatever bags or pouches were used for dictated what leather properties were needed. My hard wear and period and historical portrayals dictated the Ft Ligonier Boot. My reenacting group was lucky enough to be given a tour of the Ft Ligonier Historical Society archieve storage and were able to photo and obtain copies of documentation on the making and construction of those artifacts. If anyone wants copies, PM me and I'll tell you what I need to send you copies. It isn't money. Instructions and time is hard, but time consuming part. Making them and then wearing them is the rewarding part.
.

View attachment 24211 Summer Ft Ligonier boots, check out the moose neck back soles thickness property. I purchased the sole rectangles as large Moose neck sole rectangles from Lietzau in Minnesota. Way back in the late 1980's
View attachment 24212 Ft Ligs Summer on left, winters on rightView attachment 24210winter pak soles on Ft Ligonier winter boot
View attachment 24209 Winter boot profile (note laced on collar NOT sewn on) This is PC on these. Buffalo neck back soles, not moose.

Thank you..Great information. My source for buffalo is out of it right now. So I am looking at other places. In my reading some of the best moccasins came from lodge covers that were highly smoked. I will send you a PM for your offered assistance. Thanks again
LC

 

[MooseHunter92]

View attachment 23750 I have 2 pair. One, for warm weather, is 8-10 oz leather with 12-14 oz sole with added arch support and fairly snug.
The other is all 12+ and made bigger for wearing heavy socks for cold weather. They look a bit bulky but will serve the purpose.
View attachment 23752

Those are awesome! Know anyone that can make me a pair out of my moose hide?

 

[tenngun]

What style of Moccasin do you think is best? Pucker toe? hard sole? center seam?
LC

Side seam are described in journals and memoirs. And Miller shows some side seam and at least one center seam. We also see puckertoe, which for what ever reason isn’t as popular among living history types now.
Howsomever you said you were drawn to southwest style. For my hand the easiest moccs to make are Pueblo boot and New Mexico shoe.
I THINK that the style was the ancestor of the southern plains hard sole. While this style may have been used in your time frame it’s probably post 1840
But the New Mexico shoe and pueblo boot were used at least to early seventeenth century and after 1821 Americans were exposed to them
Some folk will point out how easy centerseam or side seam is to make, and it’s true, but there is a learning curve to get them to fit.
I go by Tenngun, and been called Canoe Killer and Bear shadow, but I spent a year being called Duck Foot for poorly fit moccs.
Anyway, just something to think about if your thinking South west, Taos Or Santa Fe