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Best Period Military Musket
- Thread starter nightwolf1974
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Greg Wesley
32 Cal.
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Would a Jaeger be appropriate for F&I?
Probably in very limited numbers and limited geography.
LD
LD
Thanks to those who contributed to this thread. I was unaware of the charms of the French 1717s and 1728s.
Greg Wesley
32 Cal.
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Thank you for the information. I knew I saw something about the Jaeger. It was in the Sketch Book 56 Roger's Rangers vol. 1. It said a few Rangers chose the rifle with most being locally supplied and owned by the user. I would assume they were more expensive to buy and outfit a unit than the Bess. Rangers would know how to use rifleman. Jaeger is 
ff for smooth bore posting, but were still used in limited numbers.
ff for smooth bore posting, but were still used in limited numbers.hate to be a wet blanket but wait time from The Rfle Shoppe can run into years and several of our members have endured it or given up th wait. IF you order, make sure it's "in stock" and complete...just saying.nightwolf1974 said:
Wes/Tex said:
I'd buy one from Track of the Wolf.....but I'm worried about it going handgrenade if I fire it with a PRB.....being from India and such.
I just fired an India origin 20 gauge smoothbore trade gun with 1 1/4 ounce of lead shot yesterday, and that's heavier than the .590 round ball that I use. I fired my LLP Bess with a round ball, and my Serjeant's carbine with a round ball. All from India...., No worries.
LD
LD
I put about 20 rounds (3 1/4 drams or 90 grains ffg pushing a 0.715 ball) through my Loyalist Arms (India production) Long Land pattern this weekend. The gun is fine.
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Hi,
I really am not aware of any credible and unambiguous evidence indicating that India-made gun barrels are unsafe. Stories and anecdotes but nothing that can definitely be confirmed as a barrel failure due to poor materials or production. In my opinion, I don't think you need worry about barrels failing. My objection to them is that many seem to have poorly made locks that sometimes don't spark, or the internals are not hardened properly, or lock screws are not drilled straight, etc. I've encountered and repaired India-made locks with all of those problems. Then again, some guns have no issues so it is a bit of a gamble. I think your best bet for an India-made gun is either Loyalist Arms or Middlesex Valley Traders. They at least to some extent stand behind and repair their products. MVT is located near you in Charleston, NH. Also, if you buy an India gun and the lock is crap, I am only an hour away in Braintree, Vermont. I can fix it for you. My other big objection to India-made guns is that they are not historically accurate and everyone I've handled needed a lot of cosmetic work to make it so.
dave
I really am not aware of any credible and unambiguous evidence indicating that India-made gun barrels are unsafe. Stories and anecdotes but nothing that can definitely be confirmed as a barrel failure due to poor materials or production. In my opinion, I don't think you need worry about barrels failing. My objection to them is that many seem to have poorly made locks that sometimes don't spark, or the internals are not hardened properly, or lock screws are not drilled straight, etc. I've encountered and repaired India-made locks with all of those problems. Then again, some guns have no issues so it is a bit of a gamble. I think your best bet for an India-made gun is either Loyalist Arms or Middlesex Valley Traders. They at least to some extent stand behind and repair their products. MVT is located near you in Charleston, NH. Also, if you buy an India gun and the lock is crap, I am only an hour away in Braintree, Vermont. I can fix it for you. My other big objection to India-made guns is that they are not historically accurate and everyone I've handled needed a lot of cosmetic work to make it so.
dave
Dave, I think your take is absolutely correct. I have had a couple of Indian guns and they look pretty nice -- from 50 feet away.
Two muskets - Long Land (1st Model) Brown Bess
One is made from investment cast parts available from a well known and respected USA outfit and assembled by a expert gunsmith that used to produce weapons for Colonial Williamsburg. It retails for $2300. The other is a so-called "fifty footer" - Indian made and finished here in the USA. It retails for $640. Both are perfectly functional and shoot well both live and with blanks.
Which is the better value?
(I own both)
One is made from investment cast parts available from a well known and respected USA outfit and assembled by a expert gunsmith that used to produce weapons for Colonial Williamsburg. It retails for $2300. The other is a so-called "fifty footer" - Indian made and finished here in the USA. It retails for $640. Both are perfectly functional and shoot well both live and with blanks.
Which is the better value?
(I own both)
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Hi,
Well for me the lower one is the better value, and it will hold value over time. Before I would accept the India copy in my collection of flintlocks, I would have to replace the stock with a correct piece of walnut and rebuild it to historical standards of quality and style. Essentially the India-made gun would just be a parts set. However, I would still have to rework the lock and get rid the polishing wheel finish, which dishes out all the screw holes. It would need to be tuned and I'll bet the fit of the frizzen to the pan could be a lot better. I would have to make sure the internal parts are hardened properly so it is safe and will resist wear over time. Finally, I would engrave the lockplate and flintcock properly. With all that work, the gun would cost over $3000. To someone who doesn't care about reproducing the quality of work typical of the British ordnance system, being historically accurate, and holding value over the long term, the India gun is the better value. Of course, that assumes you get one that works right out of the box.
dave
Well for me the lower one is the better value, and it will hold value over time. Before I would accept the India copy in my collection of flintlocks, I would have to replace the stock with a correct piece of walnut and rebuild it to historical standards of quality and style. Essentially the India-made gun would just be a parts set. However, I would still have to rework the lock and get rid the polishing wheel finish, which dishes out all the screw holes. It would need to be tuned and I'll bet the fit of the frizzen to the pan could be a lot better. I would have to make sure the internal parts are hardened properly so it is safe and will resist wear over time. Finally, I would engrave the lockplate and flintcock properly. With all that work, the gun would cost over $3000. To someone who doesn't care about reproducing the quality of work typical of the British ordnance system, being historically accurate, and holding value over the long term, the India gun is the better value. Of course, that assumes you get one that works right out of the box.
dave
To each his own. But to be fair, you must admit that virtually no modern reproduction musket can hope to replicate "work typical of the British ordnance system, being historically accurate." Even the best USA made piece, will vary from historical authenticity in important and perceivable ways.
(Making them ___ footers?)
Barrels = Deep hole drilled from solid stock as opposed to hammer welded.
Stock = Profiled using either a modern router pantograph or even more modern CNC system.
Hardware = Investment cast instead of forged and filed to pattern.
Screws = Modern as opposed to period thread systems.
Etc.
People like what they like. More power to 'em. But let's not kid ourselves about superior 'historical accuracy.'
(Making them ___ footers?)
Barrels = Deep hole drilled from solid stock as opposed to hammer welded.
Stock = Profiled using either a modern router pantograph or even more modern CNC system.
Hardware = Investment cast instead of forged and filed to pattern.
Screws = Modern as opposed to period thread systems.
Etc.
People like what they like. More power to 'em. But let's not kid ourselves about superior 'historical accuracy.'
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Hi,
The straw man argument: "if you don't make it exactly as they did in the 18th century it is not historically accurate". If you were right than why bother trying to make traditional guns at all? Your custom made gun is superior in historical accuracy and quality of construction and anyone who knows anything about these guns can see that very clearly.
dave
The straw man argument: "if you don't make it exactly as they did in the 18th century it is not historically accurate". If you were right than why bother trying to make traditional guns at all? Your custom made gun is superior in historical accuracy and quality of construction and anyone who knows anything about these guns can see that very clearly.
dave
