Best Period Military Musket

[azmntman]

Two muskets - Long Land (1st Model) Brown Bess

One is made from investment cast parts available from a well known and respected USA outfit and assembled by a expert gunsmith that used to produce weapons for Colonial Williamsburg. It retails for $2300. The other is a so-called "fifty footer" - Indian made and finished here in the USA. It retails for $640. Both are perfectly functional and shoot well both live and with blanks.

Which is the better value?
(I own both)

USA outfit and assembled by a expert gunsmith

Nuff said

 

[vetarms]

No serious collector or person concerned with authenticity would or should settle for a USA made bess or American made Charleville.

A Brown Bess made in Arizona would be like a taco made made in Hong Kong.

A true 'authentic' would only settle for a piece made of UK parts and assembled by an expert English craftsman in Great Britain using period techniques. Sure, it would cost more - lots more - but anything less would be unacceptable from an authenticity standpoint and pretty obviously not represent good 'value.'

:barf:

 

[Hisownself]

Would the blacksmith have to use steel made from manual mining techniques in a period 17th forge, using charcoal from "old growth" timber processed in 17th century charcoal pits by guys wearing period clothing and a Monmouth cap? Or could they use modern steel made in a modern forge with raw materials mined with modern mining techniques?

 

[azmntman]

No serious collector or person concerned with authenticity would or should settle for a USA made bess or American made Charleville.

A Brown Bess made in Arizona would be like a taco made made in Hong Kong.

A true 'authentic' would only settle for a piece made of UK parts and assembled by an expert English craftsman in Great Britain using period techniques. Sure, it would cost more - lots more - but anything less would be unacceptable from an authenticity standpoint and pretty obviously not represent good 'value.'

:barf:

WELL EXCUSE MEEEE! I must have missed the British gun mentioned in your post. Between Indian and USA was what I was commenting on. Thanks so much for your help.

 

[spudnut]

Ive had India muskets that work just fine even with a double load

 

[nightwolf1974]

Ok, as long as they are safe to shoot.......I have no problem with them.

Thanks guys... :hatsoff:

 

[Grenadier1758]

Be aware that we are not saying all India made guns are safe to shoot. There are some made to be wall hangars. Some are sold without the touch hole drilled. I don't think I would want to shoot one. Stick with distributors that are selling guns that are ready to shoot such as Loyalist Arms or Middlesex Village.

 

[Alden]

ALL these "guns" that leave India have no touchhole drilled -- they are not allowed to export "guns."

 

[vetarms]

All American made custom muzzleloader barrels are sold without the vent drilled, as are the ones from Britain, Germany, Spain, Hungary, and etc.

Basically, every muzzleloader barrel - custom or production - no matter the origin, is unvented right up until the point that someone vents it.

 

[smoothshooter]

If you go with a parts set from The Rifle Shoppe, be prepared for a long wait.

There are members of this forum that have waited for years for their order to be completed. And these are not isolated instances. Pretty common, actually.

The subject has come up many times here. Doing a topic search will let you see what I mean.

 

[RAEDWALD]

Derbyshire Arms in the UK import India made muskets and they are proofed at the Birmingham Proof House and they tell me that none have failed proof. The same for Carry Arms who proof theirs in the London Proof House. Other European importers have theirs proofed in Italy or Germany and I know of several privately proofed in France.

India made muskets may be less well finished etc. than the expensive alternatives but they do seem to be safe in the above cases.

 

[JohnN]

Think we need to get back to the original post and not another Indian vs. American debate. The source of the weapon depends on the weapon chosen. TOW and other American makers do not have all that many military muskets available. Let's say a French 1728 military musket was chosen. Then the only American choice would be TRS or an Indian made musket. If you wanted a fusil de chasse than you have several options. Next consideration is cost and historical accuracy. A TRS parts set is over $1000 and you may get it in 3 months or 3 years. An Indian gun can be had for $600 in 2 weeks. I bought an Indian musket several years ago and didn't like the idea of no spare lock parts being available so I made my own lock plate and fitted it with TRS internals.

 

[Alden]

All American made custom muzzleloader barrels are sold without the vent drilled, as are the ones from Britain, Germany, Spain, Hungary, and etc.

Basically, every muzzleloader barrel - custom or production - no matter the origin, is unvented right up until the point that someone vents it.

If that were actually true of the guns we are talking about, which it certainly isn't, in fact quite the opposite, then maybe it would be germane and not just obvious including the statement was meant as a misdirection to confuse people into thinking that India-made guns are the equivalent of the others.

India-made simply aren't up to the same quality though, not by a long shot. Let me repeat: none of these blackpowder reproductions leaves India as a GUN! And when people have to resort to such techniques to persuade people on a forum that they are (probably out of buyer's regret) it really should compound their embarrassment.

 

[smoothshooter]

That's actually a pretty good idea about replacing the internal parts with better quality ones. Was a lot of fitting involved? Did you have to harden them?

 

[JohnN]

I bought the small book "Craft and Practice-Part 1" from TOW and used that as my guide. It took making 3 plates to get it right but it works. Parts have to be hardened after construction so hole can be drilled,filed,etc... Normally, the lock for the French 1728 comes with the pan attached but I found out from them that the pan could be bought individually. I copied the plate from the lock that was in there and then added the other parts starting with the pan. When finished I sent it to a gentleman who builds locks to engrave and harden the parts that needed it. Springs were already done. The project taught me a lot about lock geometry and construction.

 

[boxofrocks]

If you want the best for accuracy The Rifle Shoppe is the place to go. For shooting I would go with one of the smaller caliber guns.

I recently purchased a 1728 Long Land Rifle Shoppe musket made by the late John Bosh. Compared to my old Pedersoli Bess, it is massive & beautiful. It attracts a crowd every time I shoot it at the local range. Not cheap - but extravagance in the pursuit of excellence is no vice.
RD