Best practise on cutting round patches

[Claude Mathis]

I'm wiling to concede on the square patch issue..

But how do you "cut at the muzzle" guys, explain patch boxes? :hmm:

Calling it a "patch box" doesn't mean they didn't keep a "strip" of patch material it. :wink:

Also, I think people are deceived into thinking that, because the ball is round, and the bore is round, a round patch will somehow cover the ball more efficiently. It doesn't.

 

[Black Hand]

But how do you "cut at the muzzle" guys, explain patch boxes? :hmm:

Easy - they are mis-named. "Patch box" is far easier to say than "the little lidded compartment in the butt that holds my cleaning jag, ball screw, worm, a few greased patches for wiping the metal, an extra touch-hole pick and a little tow to keep it all from rattling around"...

 

[coloradoclyde]

Maybe the old ones were just like us and some did it one way, some another. Both cutting at the muzzle and precuts are described in primary documents, both are HC.

Spence

Gentlemen... :grin: I'm not arguing a case for accuracy on target...

I think Spence is correct in that more than on method was applied...

However!...If your being chased by restless natives are you going to cut at the muzzle for your reload? :hmm:

 

[LaBonte]

If being chased by hostiles most frontiersmen generally used a bare ball when on the run so to speak and that's based on several 18th and 19th primary period references. Other period references show that if/when a group was forted up and being attacked the shooters generally took turns some firing while others loaded as normal.

 

[necchi]

If your being chased by restless natives are you going to cut at the muzzle for your reload? :hmm:

If that where the case I wouldn't bother using any patch

 

[coloradoclyde]

If being chased by hostiles most frontiersmen generally used a bare ball

I was afraid someone would say that..... :haha:

:surrender: :surrender: :surrender: :surrender:

 

[Dewey]

Thanks for all those wonderful primary source materials !!!

I guess the answer is: different people did their own thing - so do yours !!!

 

[George]

But how do you "cut at the muzzle" guys, explain patch boxes? :hmm:

Do a search of the newspapers of the 18th century for "patch box" and you will come up with many, many hits. Problem is, 99% of them are not for our kind of patch boxes, they are for women and men to keep their beauty patches in. It was the custom to strategically place a little round patch or two on the face to improve the looks. I've only ever found one item specifically referring to a patch box on a gun, that in 1794. They speak of boxes on guns, yes, but usually just that, patch isn't included.

Probably because everyone was cutting at the muzzle, clyde. :haha:

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

Esteemed peers.....both round patches and patch boxes are part of the modern vernacular and physical usage.
When do you suppose they became part of the lexicon of the sport and or physical implements?

If they didn't exist back then....but they do now...
When did they appear? :hmm:

 

[necchi]

There is a difference between a "cap box" that are placed on many of the faux "hawkin" rifles we see today; http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/813/1

And the "Patch box" of the Colonial thru the Federal period; http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/814/1

 

[coloradoclyde]

Indeed....and when caps were invented the round box took on the name cap box....indicating it's purpose/function....prior to percussion caps there were patch boxes, indicating?.... :hmm:

 

[necchi]

prior to percussion caps there were patch boxes, indicating?

As long as we're dealing with hypothetical in a historical sense,,
Indicating that there is room enough for more material and items then just a little "round" circle.
If all that was needed was a small circle cut piece of fabric,,
Why did they waste time excavating a large square area,, and,, call it a "Patch" box?
Sorry clyde, but your asking rhetorical questions trying to prove a point about the round patch when indeed the "patch box" is/was square or rectangular.

 

[coloradoclyde]

:rotf: :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

I assume patch boxes were rectangular because its a P.I.T.A. to make a round hole with a chisel... :grin:

Don't get too mad at me I'm just having fun with the subject. :wink:

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I use square patches and what I've done to cut square patches easily is to borrow my wife's cutting wheel (looks like a pizza cutter) and the thin synthetic mat they make for cutting material against. To be honest, I cut my shooting patches at the barrel or I'll use a loading block to carry 6 patched rounds, but I cut my cleaning patches using the following method.

I'll lay out a piece of material (flannel for cleaning patches)on the cutting mat and use the guidelines on the mat as a guide to make consistent width strips. Then, without picking up the strips, I'll twist the mat around 90° and cut those same strips in the other direction to make them into squares. It's really quick and really easy to do. you can cut a couple of hundred patches in just a few minutes.

Be very careful to keep your fingers away from that cutting wheel though. It's almost as sharp as a razor and it will cut you very easily. Ask me how I know...

Twisted_1in66:thumbsup:
Dan

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Colorado Clyde, how could anyone get upset at you while you are wearing that hat and beard??

You know, the way they make patch boxes now is to use a Forstner bit and drill a number of holes next to each other (3 or so) to get the basic length and width. Then they use the chisel to remove the bits necessary to turn it into a rectangular hole and dress up the bottom as needed. And, if I recall correctly, they used a bit and brace to basically do the same thing back in the 18th century. It was in the 19th century that they got lazy and only drilled one hole and filled it full of grease. At least they were forthright enough to call it a grease hole. :wink:

Twisted_1in66:thumbsup:
Dan

 

[TFoley]

My admiration for our forebears constantly increases as I find our more about the unimaginable hardships they were forced to endure.

Agreed....

But my admiration also increases when I discover their technological advancements....

They were not always the simpletons that many believe.....

Today we are living in the world that those 'simpletons' made.

tac

 

[MSW]

too true, Tac ... remember ... we sent a man to the moon, and we used slide rules to do all the calculations.

I've worked in a number of pawn shops and one gun shop ... I've seen all manner of goofy stuff in patchboxes, including (but not limited to) percussion caps in a patchbox on a flintlock, small screwdrivers, allen wrenches, car keys, spare house keys, cleaning jags of various calibers, worms, bits of wire, spare flints, roundball, assorted centerfire pistol cartridges, and what some of the bifocal set would call a roach clip and some loose reefer. found a wine cork in one, too.

once I found a patch, but it looked as though it was for cleaning.

just one guy's observations... :hmm:

 

[Rifleman1776]

extra fabric above the ball matters not.

Bingo! Bottom line. :thumbsup:
Next subject, please.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Here's an original flintlock (Jacob Wigel, 1812ish) showing the dimples from five round holes drilled with a spade bit before being properly chiseled out.

Lord knows what the subsequent owners have added or removed from inherited or purchases originals over 200 or 250 years.

Short of finding an undisturbed firearm in the bottom of a well or cave we won't know what was carried in the patchbox by the original owner. I have two lead balls, one flint, vent feather, tow worm (loaded with tow), brass jag and a ball puller - all wrapped in a square of my (dry) patch material for noise reduction. I figure the next owner will appreciate the "sample" ball and flint and accessories of the proper size and thread.

It's actually kind of awkward to upend your rifle when loading to have to get the patch. Unless the first act is to pop it on your tongue before getting to measuring and pouring the powder charge and fishing out a ball.

 

[BrownBear]

Short of finding an undisturbed firearm in the bottom of a well or cave we won't know what was carried in the patchbox by the original owner.

I sure learned my lesson, whether it has any foundation in history.

Made a bum shot on a deer and went to reload. Discovered I'd somehow left the truck without any patches. Discovered that two layers of fabric ripped from my T-shirt would suffice.

Ever since then....wait for it.... I've been carrying lubed patches in my patch boxes. :thumbsup:

It's a pretty good antidote for geezerly memory. :rotf: