Best way to lube swaged bullet

[paulmarcone]

I recently bought some swaged .577 bullets for my Armi Sport 2-band Enfield (see attached picture).

I have not shot them yet, but wanted to know what you guys thought was the best way to lube them: in the base or along the sides. Obviously, this particular bullet does not have grooves, so I am not sure if he make sense to try and dab the sides with a lube such as Bore Butter or Navy Arms shotgun sealer. It seems like the easiest thing to do is put a dab in the hollow base.

Any thoughts?

Thanks guys.

 

[BrownBear]

I haven't tried it, based on what happened when I tried lubing the sides of a few pure lead bullets in one of my Sharpes cartridge guns. You gotta love lead cleanup. I ran out of papers for paper patching with three bullets left. I lubed the outside and let em go. Spent a long, long time cleaning up afterwards.

It's guesswork, but I'm betting it's pretty good guesswork for what will happen in a ML. Mine don't have hollow bases, so I won't even speculate whether lube in the base will cut down on leading an otherwise unprotected bullet.

 

[bart_anastasi]

I do not believe putting lube in the base of the bullet will do anything for you. except dampen you powder

With that type of bullet I think the only solution is a paper patch.

That is a double wrap of paper that is lightly lubed before it is fired.

This type of patch sort of is like the leaf wraper of a cigar covering the bullet sides and tucked into the base of the bullet.

It is require cleaning the bore after each shot if you use this type of bullet since the paper patch will tear if it is loaded with a dirty bore.

Try a search on this site on paper patch it might help

 

[Jerry Coffee]

I recently bought some swaged .577 bullets for my Armi Sport 2-band Enfield (see attached picture).

I have not shot them yet, but wanted to know what you guys thought was the best way to lube them: in the base or along the sides. Obviously, this particular bullet does not have grooves, so I am not sure if he make sense to try and dab the sides with a lube such as Bore Butter or Navy Arms shotgun sealer. It seems like the easiest thing to do is put a dab in the hollow base.

Any thoughts?

Thanks guys.

Those minies are copies of the English Pritchett minie ball.Those minies were shipped on blockade runners to the Confederate military and they were issued to the infantry troops. The Confederate arsenals also made them. The original English Pritchett minies had a wooden plug in the base to assist the expansion of the skirt but that was deleted when they English armorers determined the Pritchett minies worked just as well without the expansion plug.

The swaged Pritchett style minies are designed for lubed paper patch. I have 50 swaged Pritchett style minies but I have not fired any in my P53 Enfield 3-band rifle musket because it is too much trouble to wrap them with a paper patch and lube them. I don't think I will ever fire them in my P53 Endfield until I can find a suitable liquid lube.

I thought about lubing the swaged Pritchett style minies with Liquid ALOX until I noticed ALOX is a petroleum product and should not be used with black powder. Liquid ALOX is a fine lube for use with cartridge rifles designed for smokeless powder. ALOX dries to a varnish like coating and does not need grooves to stay on the side of the minie ball even in 100 degree temperatures. I even thought about lubing my swaged Pritchett style minies with STP.

I feel like lubing the hollow base of a minie ball is marginal at best.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Try using any vegetable oil on those paper patches.Olive oil works, as will peanut oil. So will most of the vegetable oils used in your kitchen. Ballistol will also work, even diluted 50/50 with water. You only have to set the bullets aside to dry, leaving less oil on the paper wraps. Some people don't like the smell of ballistol. If so, must buy some much cheaper Mineral Oil at the grocery store, or drugstore, and use that. Ballistol is mainly mineral oil with an additive in it. There is no evidence that mineral oil affects ML rifles or BP adversely.

 

[bob308]

fill the base with crisco. when the powder goes off it helps expand the bullet and the flash lubes the bore for the next shot. that is what most nssa shooters use.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Wow! I haven't fired one of these for over thirty five years. You can put some lube in the base if you first seat a card wad on the charge to keep the lube from migrating into the powder. It helps a little, but better is to use paper patches soaked in olive oil and allowed to drain. But you can't use a .577 diameter slug and a paper patch in a .577 bore. It is too tight. As I recall I sized the bullets down to .575 or so. Probably why I went back to using a .575 Springfield Minie in my Enfield--less work and the accuracy was just as good.

 

[Zonie]

The paper patched bullets I use in my .400 caliber Schuetzen are .395 in diameter.
That forces me to use dress pattern paper for the patch.
This paper is only about .001 thick (and quite tough) so the two layers of wrapped paper add up to about .004 on the diameter.
.004 plus the .395 lead slug adds up to .399 which will load in a clean .40 cal bore.

For a paper patched .58 cal Rifled Musket slug I would think it should be about .573 in diameter before wrapping the paper on it.

If thin dress pattern paper were used that would make a patched slug about .577 in diameter which should load fairly easily but still seal the bore due to the effects of the hollow base and the obturation the bullet will experiance when it is fired.

The only problem with using dress pattern paper is you really need to wait until you are about ready to load before you lube it.
If you let the lube stand on the paper for any period of time it will weaken it causing it to tare rather easily.

 

[Jerry Coffee]

I knocked those Pritchett style minies twice through a .575" sizer and the second time I did it, they went through easily with one stroke. After sizing,they measured .575" with calipers, which is too tight for a lubed paper wrap.

The Pritchett style minies are the perfect size for a .577" P53 Enfield rifle musket without a paper wrap. A lube similar to Liquiid ALOX that dries to a varnish like coating on sides of the minie but is not petroleum based, would be best. Ballistol, mineral oil, or olive oil or any of the wax based lubricants would not remain on the smooth sides of the Pritchett style minie unless you applied those lubes immediately before loading. What a mess that would be.

 

[doublesnider]

HI,
I used some soth side bulleson my Snider rifle.
I will try to explain my methos for grooving somth bullets:
1- put the bullet on the side over a hard smooth surface.
2- put a coarse file over the bullet.
3- move the file so the bullet rolls.

It enlarge bullet diameter a little but the groove retain some of the lube (bees wax or any hard lube.
Hope it helps.
Martin

 

[ResearchPress]

I have 50 swaged Pritchett style minies but I have not fired any in my P53 Enfield 3-band rifle musket because it is too much trouble to wrap them with a paper patch and lube them.

I patch a lot of bullets for .45 cal match rifles. You shouldn't be put off patching, it's quite easy and no more trouble than lubing grease grooved bullets.

With regards to these smooth sided bullets I have seen these used by one shooter who rolled the bullet on a file such that the sides of the bullet became knurled and were then lubed. Not sure what he lubed them with though. This may be an avenue worth pursuing, but don't blame me if you have problems with leading! :grin:

Personally, I'd patch them and give them a go.

David

 

[ResearchPress]

You can put some lube in the base if you first seat a card wad on the charge to keep the lube from migrating into the powder.

Does this not run the risk of the card wad being forced into the base cavity and affecting accuracy? If the card is sufficiently robust to prevent this, would the lube in the base actually do anything?

David

 

[gmww]

HI,
I used some soth side bulleson my Snider rifle.
I will try to explain my methos for grooving somth bullets:
1- put the bullet on the side over a hard smooth surface.
2- put a coarse file over the bullet.
3- move the file so the bullet rolls.

It enlarge bullet diameter a little but the groove retain some of the lube (bees wax or any hard lube.
Hope it helps.
Martin

I did this some years ago with some RB that I ran through a sizer to my my version of ballets.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you fill the base with lube, then use a wafer of waxed paper under the lube, and any kind of OP wad behind the wax paper, you should not see the wad be shoved into the hollow base, and the hydraulic effect of having the grease inside should quickly expand the " skirt " to fill the grooves.

The wax paper wafer will insure that the wad does not stick to the lube in the hollow base, dragging the bullet down. The wax paper will weigh so little that it should not affect accuracy even if it does stay with the bullet. ( Mostly , they spin off the base, as the high revolutions of the spinning bullet produce far more powerful centrifugal force, than the cohesive forces of the lube on the wax paper.)

Being of such light weight, the wax paper does not have any affect on the drag factors of the bullet, nor does it disrupt the vacuum cone trailing the bullet as it travels downrange.

I first read about this " solution " for hollow based bullets in Steve Garbe, and Mike Venturino's Black Powder Cartridge Reloading Manual. I am sure its been around for years, of course. You will need a wad punch to cut out those wax paper wafers, but many shooters use wad punches to make their own OP wads out of felt, now. :hatsoff:

 

[Jerry Coffee]

If you fill the cavity of a .575" swaged Pritchett style minie ball with lube instead of using a lubed paper patch, you can use over-shot blackpowder shot shell cards between the base of the minie and the powder load to prevent contamination of the powder with lube. I have not tried the cards or the .575" Pritchett style minies yet but I plan to try this lube arrangement this spring. However, be prepared for leading of the bore.

I purchased a bag of 1,000 over-shot cards for a 24 ga.(.579" bore) BP shot shells. Those are .025" thick X .589" diameter which is just the size for a .577" Enfield rifle bore. After loading the Enfield with 50 gr. 3f BP, push the card into the muzzle with your thumb and then load a lubed .575" Pritchett style minie ball on top of the card. An alternative way to prepare the minie ball is to glue the over-shot shell card to the base of the minie but I feel sure the card will not stick after the base of the minie is lubed.

 

[Jerry Coffee]

This subject has regenerated my interest in the use of my swaged Pritchett style minies.

Since the English .575" Pritchett style hollow base minie balls are .002" smaller than the bore of a .577" P53 Enfield rifle musket, lubing the sides of the minie ball is not necessary to make loading easier or to lube the bore when the minie is fired. Lubing undersize minie balls is mainly used to keep powder residue fouling soft and easier to clean. If you lube the base cavity of the swaged Pritchett minie ball and use the shotgun shell card as a dam between the lube and the powder, that will be enough to keep the powder fouling soft and will not contaminate the powder load with lube. After multiple shots and lead fouling makes the minie difficult to load, the bore then needs to be cleaned once with lead solvent for additonal shots.

That is the procedure I will use with the Pritchett style minies the next time I go to the rifle range.

 

[paulmarcone]

If you fill the cavity of a .575" swaged Pritchett style minie ball with lube instead of using a lubed paper patch, you can use over-shot blackpowder shot shell cards between the base of the minie and the powder load to prevent contamination of the powder with lube. I have not tried the cards or the .575" Pritchett style minies yet but I plan to try this lube arrangement this spring. However, be prepared for leading of the bore.

I purchased a bag of 1,000 over-shot cards for a 24 ga.(.579" bore) BP shot shells. Those are .025" thick X .589" diameter which is just the size for a .577" Enfield rifle bore. After loading the Enfield with 50 gr. 3f BP, push the card into the muzzle with your thumb and then load a lubed .575" Pritchett style minie ball on top of the card. An alternative way to prepare the minie ball is to glue the over-shot shell card to the base of the minie but I feel sure the card will not stick after the base of the minie is lubed.

Thanks guys for all the advice. Where can I purchase the over shot cards, on the Dixie Gun Works site they only go up to 20 gauge?

 

[gmww]

I believe they do as well as TOW.

 

[paulmarcone]

Would these do the trick in .58 caliber?

October country

 

[paulmarcone]

If you fill the cavity of a .575" swaged Pritchett style minie ball with lube instead of using a lubed paper patch, you can use over-shot blackpowder shot shell cards between the base of the minie and the powder load to prevent contamination of the powder with lube. I have not tried the cards or the .575" Pritchett style minies yet but I plan to try this lube arrangement this spring. However, be prepared for leading of the bore.

I purchased a bag of 1,000 over-shot cards for a 24 ga.(.579" bore) BP shot shells. Those are .025" thick X .589" diameter which is just the size for a .577" Enfield rifle bore. After loading the Enfield with 50 gr. 3f BP, push the card into the muzzle with your thumb and then load a lubed .575" Pritchett style minie ball on top of the card. An alternative way to prepare the minie ball is to glue the over-shot shell card to the base of the minie but I feel sure the card will not stick after the base of the minie is lubed.

Would this be better than the Ox-Yoke wads (see link below)? Midway is the only on-line dealer that sells them in 24 gauge. They are currently out of stock but should have them in 10 days or so. Would appreciate the collective wisdom out there on what to purchase! Thanks.

Midway