better accuracy

[ebiggs1]

I am confident my guns will shoot every time now, so it is time to see about accuracy. I know they shoot well because I hit targets better than I do with my center fire. One thing for sure flintlocks will make you a better shot. You really learn how to HOLD.

Anyway the .45 cal is pretty darn consistent with 55 grs of 3f. .440 round ball and .018 pillow patch with Bore Butter. All five shot groups.

The 50 cal always seems to throw me a flyer. It is also 55 grs of 3f. .490 round ball and .018 pillow patch with Bore Butter. You must use more pressure to load the 50 cal with .018 patch (which measures .016) than is needed on the 45 cal.

I had some yellow patches that were suppose to be .015, so I tried them and I didn’t get the flyer, first time! BTW, the .015s measured .017 and were no easier to load.

The 50 cal also seems to shoot to the right. Do any of you think this is a patch problem? Or any other suggestion? I was only shooting 15 yards as that is about as far as I can safely go without annoying the neighbors too much.

 

[killer]

I just had the same problem stinging as you are with your 45, I jumped up my powder 5 grains and used less lube on the patches and it solved the problem. I was told vertical stringing more powder, horizontal strining less powder. It worked for me.

 

[rafterob]

I would say just tap the front sight on that .50 a smidgen to the right. The group is consistent so I wouldn't say its the patches.

 

[Zoar]

Agreed!!! Too often people start "fixin" was is not broken! The groups are terrific! Don't mess with anything but the sights.

 

[ebiggs1]

Well today it was too windy to haul rocks. So what do I do, shoot flintlocks of course.
This is the Lyman GPR in 54 cal. It shot very low, which I knew from playing around with it try to get the lock straightened out. Anyway I have filed a great deal of the front sight to get it to this point. It looks like it is a shooter if I can get it up.

5 shots
54 cal
55 grs of 3f
4f prime
.018 pillow patch Bore Butter
.530 balls

Will a bigger load raise the point of impact, say 70 or 80 grs?

 

[David W.]

The group seems pretty fair, but if you do adjust your sights, tap the rear sight, not the front unless you know the front sight is off center.

 

[Big John]

More 3f, if patches shred too much, try 80gr=85gr of 2f

 

[paulvallandigham]

Remember that 3Fg powder burns hotter than 2Fg powder will. When you get around 70-75 grains in a .54 cal. gun , its not uncommon to begin to find burned patches.

You either:

a. increase the patch thickness and/or your lube, or

b. use an OP wad, or a filler to act as a firewall to protect your .018" patch, or

c. stick with the lighter load, and file down the front sight to raise the POI.

The other choice is to change to using 2Fg powder, and simply load more of it to obtain the same velocities. With any .54, you should get good accuracy( as you have here) with lighter powder charges, to use when shooting paper. Hunting loads call for more powder, if hunting big game. But, remember, that big ball weighs more than 1/2 OZ, and once its started out of the barrel, it usually goes right through anything it hits made of flesh and blood.You really don't NEED high velocity loads to kill deer size game at ranges that are reasonable to shoot your gun at using iron sights.

Do some comparison penetration testing using both a light " target load" you chose for accuracy, and a "Hotter", Hunting load. You will find that a pure lead ball upsets even at lower velocities, and that the two balls will penetrate about the same distance through your test medium. Its the weight and diameter of the ball, not the MV that is important.

I would much rather recommend any shooter avoid using loads that will cause pain, and induce flinching, for hunting, and stick with milder loads that don't hurt, and are accurate. :thumbsup:

 

[Ron_T.]

Another thing to try if you get vertical stringing is to clean the bore between shots. As the bore gets dirty, the dirt causes the bore to decrease slightly in diameter thus making the bore tighter.

A tighter bore will give increased muzzle velocity which makes each subsequent shot shoot higher and higher with the same powder load.

So try giving the bore a light cleaning between each shot and see if that cures your vertical stringing. :wink:


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[rafterob]

A larger load may raise your POI. When sighting in a new rifle here are the tips I have gleaned from others on this forum, and they have worked well for me. 1) Start with 1 grain per caliber of the granulation recommended for your rifle. My Traditions .50 recommended ffg, so I started with 50 grains ffg. 2) At 15-25 yards,shoot for grouping first. 3) If it is grouping well with the initial charge, then I start increasing the charge in 5 grain increments and observe if there is a rise in POI. 4) Once I reach what appears to be a zenith in rise, I will typically increase another 5 and 10 grains and observe if grouping tightens up or loosens up.I then settle in on the load that gives the tightest group at the highest POI. I try to shoot the smallest load to achieve this effect to conserve powder. 5) Then I start to adjust the sights. Too often I have seen/heard of people starting to file their sights right off the bat, before performing the load work. If you have adjustable sights this is not as big an issue, but fixed sights can be rendered near useless.

 

[ebiggs1]

Here is what I think I am going to do. Leave the 45 cal the way it is. It has adjustable sights and can probably live in between its adjustments.
The 50 Hawken has the rear sight all the way down and it is centered. So, is there a way to move the group with powder and patch combo?
The Lyman GPR has its rear sight all the way up and I have filed down the front sight as far as I want to. Is there a powder/patch combo that will help get it better? Its groups are wonderful.
Remember these shots are only fifteen yards and not the more realistic hunting ranges of 50 to 75 yards for me. I will never become a match shooter, I have started the game way to late to make it, so this is for hunting purposes.

 

[redwing]

Not so Ernie. I know many fellows who started in this game after retirement. You will find many good shooters older than you. It looks like you are on your way to shoot matches if you want. :grin:

 

[Trot]

I would do some shooting at fifty yards before I did too much with it. It is hard to tell much at such a short range.

 

[DrLaw]

How do you manage to keep the paper from ripping when you PUSH the balls through it?

:blah: :rotf: :grin:

The Doc is jealous and out now. :v

 

[Tom Compton]

Re the gun/sights you want to raise the point of impact.

You need to shoot at 50 or so yards before you do anything with the sights. The top of the front sight is probably 3/4" to 1" above the center of the bore so the ball is already rising quite a bit at only 15 yards. Trajectory will continue to rise on out to 40-50 yards even with a relatively mild load.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I'll second that, 15 yards will be short of the first crossing point for line of bore and line of sight. I sight in pistols at 25 yards. With rifles I may fire a shot or two at 25 just to see that they are on the paper but move on out to 50 before I start to get serious. At 15 yards all balls should make a single hole at or very slightly below the point of aim. Your .54 is about where it should be, as is the group, the .45 and .50 are way high and groups are huge for 15 yards.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The ball is rising at that short range( 15 yds.) so you need to go out to 50 yds. to shoot groups before considering any change in sights. I suspect that the GPR will see you lowering that rear sight a bunch at 50 yds! Otherwise, you may be shooting over the top of your target with those loads.

I agree with others who recommend you do NOTHING until you have fired groups at 50 yds.


Usually putting more powder, or switching from 2Fg to 3Fg powder will raise the POI. Using an OP wad to better seal the gases behind a PRB will often raise the POI up to 1 inch at 50 yds, and higher at 100 yds.

The great part about using OP wads in a rifle shooting FFg powder, is that it raises the breech pressure, and Temperature of the burning powder charge, which then more efficiently burns up the FFg powder, leaving less residue. This a real assist for flintlocks.

 

[stubshaft]

Usually if I raise the powder charge I lower the POI.

 

[R.M.]

That's what happens with pistol loads. When the ball spends more time in the barrel with a light charge, the barrel rise from recoil is higher, and vise-versa. Can't say for sure what happens with rifle, but I would suspect it would be the same.

 

[hanshi]

Maybe it's me but increasing the powder charge has always resulted in a raising of poi.