Ok, your dumb, but then so am i. :grin: Thank you for asking so i didn't have to. :grin:
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Beware Traditions
- Thread starter john1964
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Thanks to everyone who posted supportive comments.
Again, my sole purpose here was to relay my experience for the sake of those looking to buy.
My main issue here was not the gun, despite its obvious shortcomings, but to convey the terrible customer service.
Problems are going to arise with any mass produced product, but how companies handle those problems is what is really telling.
Again, my GPR is a beautiful gun, and remarkably inexpensive for what you get.
So what you buy is up to you. But I can't imagine more bang for the buck, custom or otherwise, then what I have received from Lyman.
How one proceeds from here is up to them.
Thanks agin,
john
Again, my sole purpose here was to relay my experience for the sake of those looking to buy.
My main issue here was not the gun, despite its obvious shortcomings, but to convey the terrible customer service.
Problems are going to arise with any mass produced product, but how companies handle those problems is what is really telling.
Again, my GPR is a beautiful gun, and remarkably inexpensive for what you get.
So what you buy is up to you. But I can't imagine more bang for the buck, custom or otherwise, then what I have received from Lyman.
How one proceeds from here is up to them.
Thanks agin,
john
shifty-eyed_one
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2006
- Messages
- 33
- Reaction score
- 0
Don R said:
If I recall correctly. Unless it's I'm...I'm...really...choking!
bibletotingunslinger
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2006
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 0
Sorry to hear you got a bad deal.
I avoid getting into brand slamming and such.
I agree, Traditions needs to work on quality control and customer support.
I avoid getting into brand slamming and such.
I agree, Traditions needs to work on quality control and customer support.
Guest
:v I agree 100% with the advice about buying American . Just found out last week that Winchester ie., USRA company is shutting down their New Haven Conn, plant because they cannot compete with the cheaper forien gun companies. That means no more Model 70 bolt actions, and no more Model 94 lever actions will be made.
Forign competition affects muzzle loader companies the same way.
Forign competition affects muzzle loader companies the same way.
Guest
IIRC = If I Recall
I don't own a Traditions firearm, however, we had another fella on this board who was having problems with misfires due to his touch hole being way too low in relation to the priming pan, and got this in an e-mail response from them:
I replied giving them multiple reasons why their advice was poor, and got this in response:
After reading this thread, plus others, thanks, but I'll stay away from Traditions.
I don't own a Traditions firearm, however, we had another fella on this board who was having problems with misfires due to his touch hole being way too low in relation to the priming pan, and got this in an e-mail response from them:
I replied giving them multiple reasons why their advice was poor, and got this in response:
After reading this thread, plus others, thanks, but I'll stay away from Traditions.
It is not bashing to factually relay one's experience. In fact, I feel it is my obligation.
And quite frankly I have been having repeated problems with vendors as well. Lying about shipping. Not taking responsibility for there errors.
I believe the internet is allowing sellers to take some latitude at the buyer's expense that they could not if you stood in front of them. My sense is that if this keeps up there will likely be a whole host of laws coming from "big brother", and I know how much a group like this would love something like that.
Until that day, I will voice my angst when vendors or manufacturers mistreat me. In such transactions, it seems it is all we have left.
Take care,
john
And quite frankly I have been having repeated problems with vendors as well. Lying about shipping. Not taking responsibility for there errors.
I believe the internet is allowing sellers to take some latitude at the buyer's expense that they could not if you stood in front of them. My sense is that if this keeps up there will likely be a whole host of laws coming from "big brother", and I know how much a group like this would love something like that.
Until that day, I will voice my angst when vendors or manufacturers mistreat me. In such transactions, it seems it is all we have left.
Take care,
john
Sachem said:
I agree. One of the benefits of the Forum is that members can relay their experiences and let the reader draw their own conclusions and make a more informed choice.
Problems arise when members try to convince others that their experience is somehow more valid than someone else's.
boondocker
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Messages
- 222
- Reaction score
- 1
I read before about the touchhole being off a little in relation with the pan. On my Shenandoah this was the case and had some misfires. I like to tinker so I removed the lock and opened the pan some 5 minutes with a dremel, drilled the touchhole out to 5/64"s polished the frizzen spring up and took some tension out of it. With good English flints only 2 missfires out of around 30 shots at a shoot this last weekend, which I blame on my procedure. On the same token we had GPR"s ,T/C"s , A/H's and a few customs out of Lancaster with misfires with well versed shooters. Not me of course. I have seen alot of different model guns centerfires , hand guns that a little tweeking helped alot. Now my smokepole ignites pretty quik and shoots good I am pleased. Boon :thumbsup:
Toomuch_36
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
- Messages
- 746
- Reaction score
- 2
Mad Professor said:
T/Cs are only assembled there, the component parts (locks, triggers and sights) are manufactured by Investarm in Italy.
Toomuch
............
Shoot Flint
Pittsburghunter
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2005
- Messages
- 1,344
- Reaction score
- 39
Toomuch, let's put this Thompson Center thing to bed right now. They are made in Rochester NH. Not just the castings everything.
I have toured the entire facility for almost two weeks when I was doing phone upgrades for them. I worked in tha barrel production building the investment casting building and the final assembly building.
The do have some parts made in other parts of New England but have never imported any parts for their rifles. Every gun sold comes with a keychain that says "Proudly built in the USA".
Getting half baked walking though a foundrey that doesn't exsist makes it news to me that the guns are not made here. :bull:
\\\\ ABOUT THOMPSON CENTER ARMS \\\\
In 1965, K. W. Thompson Tool was looking for a product to build and a gun designer, Warren Center, was looking for someone to build his Contender pistol. It was a perfect match. The facilities at K. W. Thompson Tool were expanded and Thompson/Center Arms was formed. Two years later, the first Contender Pistol was shipped, starting a trend in high performance hunting handguns, which continues to grow every year. To date, over 400,000 Contender pistols have been shipped and the pistol’s reputation for versatility, accuracy and dependability goes unchallenged among serious handgun shooters.
Since the production of the initial Contender Pistol, the company has expanded its facilities and product line numerous times. In 1970, Thompson/Center entered the Black Powder market with the introduction of their first muzzleloading rifle, the Hawken. Muzzleloading interest at the time was minimal and the market needed a quality rifle, which could not only be shot but could be purchased at a reasonable price. Original or antique rifles were selling for high prices and most collectors opted not to fire these pieces. The T/C Hawken was the first of many muzzleloaders soon to be produced.
Currently, Thompson/Center Arms continues to produce an extensive line of single shot hunting pistols and rifles and a full line of muzzleloading rifles and “black powder” accessories.
The old style Contender Pistol has been redesigned. Now called the G2 Contender (2nd generation), it continues to be the most versatile hunting pistol on the market, with the capabilities of accepting both rimfire and centerfire barrels. In addition to the G2 Contender Pistol, T/C also produces a G2 Contender Rifle, again boasting readily interchangeable barrels. Sporting a 23” barrel and weighing only 5.4 pounds, there isn’t a handier, more versatile rifle anywhere.
The overall success of the Contender Pistol, and the reputation it established, led the company to bring out a slightly larger version, with a longer and thicker frame. Called the Encore, this pistol (and rifle) can accept the larger, high-powered cartridges popular with hunters who need more power at extended ranges.
Over the last 15 years, the sport of “Black Powder” hunting has increased dramatically and so too has the hunters demands. Generally not interested in the nostalgia, which accompanies the guns of the 1800’s, these hunters want modern designs, better accuracy at extended ranges, and easier cleaning. Although Thompson/Center Arms continues to offer our first muzzleloader, the Hawken, as well as the old standby version, the Renegade, most of the muzzleloaders offered today are modern style in-lines, capable of accepting magnum charges of 150 grains of FFG Black Powder, or Pyrodex equivalent (i.e.: three each of 50 grain [50 caliber] Pyrodex pellets).
Thompson/Center now offers three different styles of modern in-line muzzleloaders; the Black Diamond XR””an open breech striker design, the Omega””a sealed pivoting breech design, and the Encore 209x50 Magnum””the most versatile and popular muzzleloader sold today.
As in the past, extensive arrays of black powder accessories are offered to compliment this entire product line. All made in the USA at our Rochester, New Hampshire facility.
Our products are built with one thing in mind””quality. They’re built by New Englanders who take pride in building a sturdy product and selling it for a fair value. Thompson/Center backs this up with its famous Life Time Warranty.
Our precision investment castings come from our own casting facility here in Rochester, Thompson Investment Castings. Our dedication in providing you the best product value out there comes from our employees who, more often than not, use our products when they head into the fields and woods each year themselves.
Thompson/Center is not old by historical standards; we were not around at the turn of the century. But in the almost 40 years we’ve been in the business, we have contributed heavily to the growth of shooting and hunting in America. We’ve elevated handgun hunting and hunting with a muzzleloader to new heights and we continue to be the leaders within this industry by offering more innovative
So they even make the stinking little jags they sell.
I have toured the entire facility for almost two weeks when I was doing phone upgrades for them. I worked in tha barrel production building the investment casting building and the final assembly building.
The do have some parts made in other parts of New England but have never imported any parts for their rifles. Every gun sold comes with a keychain that says "Proudly built in the USA".
Getting half baked walking though a foundrey that doesn't exsist makes it news to me that the guns are not made here. :bull:
\\\\ ABOUT THOMPSON CENTER ARMS \\\\
In 1965, K. W. Thompson Tool was looking for a product to build and a gun designer, Warren Center, was looking for someone to build his Contender pistol. It was a perfect match. The facilities at K. W. Thompson Tool were expanded and Thompson/Center Arms was formed. Two years later, the first Contender Pistol was shipped, starting a trend in high performance hunting handguns, which continues to grow every year. To date, over 400,000 Contender pistols have been shipped and the pistol’s reputation for versatility, accuracy and dependability goes unchallenged among serious handgun shooters.
Since the production of the initial Contender Pistol, the company has expanded its facilities and product line numerous times. In 1970, Thompson/Center entered the Black Powder market with the introduction of their first muzzleloading rifle, the Hawken. Muzzleloading interest at the time was minimal and the market needed a quality rifle, which could not only be shot but could be purchased at a reasonable price. Original or antique rifles were selling for high prices and most collectors opted not to fire these pieces. The T/C Hawken was the first of many muzzleloaders soon to be produced.
Currently, Thompson/Center Arms continues to produce an extensive line of single shot hunting pistols and rifles and a full line of muzzleloading rifles and “black powder” accessories.
The old style Contender Pistol has been redesigned. Now called the G2 Contender (2nd generation), it continues to be the most versatile hunting pistol on the market, with the capabilities of accepting both rimfire and centerfire barrels. In addition to the G2 Contender Pistol, T/C also produces a G2 Contender Rifle, again boasting readily interchangeable barrels. Sporting a 23” barrel and weighing only 5.4 pounds, there isn’t a handier, more versatile rifle anywhere.
The overall success of the Contender Pistol, and the reputation it established, led the company to bring out a slightly larger version, with a longer and thicker frame. Called the Encore, this pistol (and rifle) can accept the larger, high-powered cartridges popular with hunters who need more power at extended ranges.
Over the last 15 years, the sport of “Black Powder” hunting has increased dramatically and so too has the hunters demands. Generally not interested in the nostalgia, which accompanies the guns of the 1800’s, these hunters want modern designs, better accuracy at extended ranges, and easier cleaning. Although Thompson/Center Arms continues to offer our first muzzleloader, the Hawken, as well as the old standby version, the Renegade, most of the muzzleloaders offered today are modern style in-lines, capable of accepting magnum charges of 150 grains of FFG Black Powder, or Pyrodex equivalent (i.e.: three each of 50 grain [50 caliber] Pyrodex pellets).
Thompson/Center now offers three different styles of modern in-line muzzleloaders; the Black Diamond XR””an open breech striker design, the Omega””a sealed pivoting breech design, and the Encore 209x50 Magnum””the most versatile and popular muzzleloader sold today.
As in the past, extensive arrays of black powder accessories are offered to compliment this entire product line. All made in the USA at our Rochester, New Hampshire facility.
Our products are built with one thing in mind””quality. They’re built by New Englanders who take pride in building a sturdy product and selling it for a fair value. Thompson/Center backs this up with its famous Life Time Warranty.
Our precision investment castings come from our own casting facility here in Rochester, Thompson Investment Castings. Our dedication in providing you the best product value out there comes from our employees who, more often than not, use our products when they head into the fields and woods each year themselves.
Thompson/Center is not old by historical standards; we were not around at the turn of the century. But in the almost 40 years we’ve been in the business, we have contributed heavily to the growth of shooting and hunting in America. We’ve elevated handgun hunting and hunting with a muzzleloader to new heights and we continue to be the leaders within this industry by offering more innovative
So they even make the stinking little jags they sell.
Mike,
with the greatest of respect, not ALL "foreign" guns are rubbish...
Japan, Spain and Italy all have living standards and wages the same as or superior to the USA. They are all industrialised countries with highly developed manufacturing sectors. The Italians, in fact, lead the world in high tech castings etc. What lets these manufacturers down is design ("fantasy" guns, in the negative sense), quality control, and the desire by some who are not shooters or proper gunsmiths to make a quick buck.
That said, a cheap gun is a cheap gun, no matter where on this planet it's made. And you "gets what you pays fer"
I own cheap guns and with one exception they are not worth the hassles and constant breakdowns. My excuse is they are the only ones I could get easily in this far flung corner of the globe.
with the greatest of respect, not ALL "foreign" guns are rubbish...
Japan, Spain and Italy all have living standards and wages the same as or superior to the USA. They are all industrialised countries with highly developed manufacturing sectors. The Italians, in fact, lead the world in high tech castings etc. What lets these manufacturers down is design ("fantasy" guns, in the negative sense), quality control, and the desire by some who are not shooters or proper gunsmiths to make a quick buck.
That said, a cheap gun is a cheap gun, no matter where on this planet it's made. And you "gets what you pays fer"
I own cheap guns and with one exception they are not worth the hassles and constant breakdowns. My excuse is they are the only ones I could get easily in this far flung corner of the globe.
Pittsburghunter
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2005
- Messages
- 1,344
- Reaction score
- 39
I would say quality control. Like I posted ealier I love my Crockett it is just the fact that some things never should make it past quality control is what gives these guns a bad name. I should never have the defects on that gun it has and I also should be willing to send it back which I am not.
My old CVA made in Spain is a tank nothing around is built better today for the money. Of course it isn't a T/C but cost half as much.
My old CVA made in Spain is a tank nothing around is built better today for the money. Of course it isn't a T/C but cost half as much.
I'm glad to see someone has had good luck from a CVA. My first blackpowder rifle was a CVA mountain rifle that was not only unreliable but the tumbler disentigrated during the two years that I had it. Around 1980 I was introduced to Siler locks,Douglas barrels and Davis triggers and I havent looked back. Had I bought a T/C Hawkin like my buddy did I probably wouldn't have started building my own. Heh, maybe these cheap guns aren't so bad or in the case of my addiction not so cheap. :grin:
Pittsburghunter
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2005
- Messages
- 1,344
- Reaction score
- 39
Treerat, my old CVA has been through hell and back has one of the smoothest actions I own I believe it has the origional lock never checked. If it did not have a rubber buttplate it would be the most authentic looking rifle I own. It is a Missouri rifle made in 87.
I bought a Traditions DeerSlayer,and have not one bit of trouble with it.
Of course I threw the rod away and bought anouther one.
I also bought a Kentucky Pistol,other than a little sanding,it went together real nice.
They both shoot really good.
I do have a problem with Traditions though,I can never get through to them on the phone(anyone have a working telephone #?).
I ordered some stuff online after Christmas,have'nt seen it yet!
I emailed them and they said everything was on backorder,likely story!!
So I order my stuff elsewhere now.
Bill
Of course I threw the rod away and bought anouther one.
I also bought a Kentucky Pistol,other than a little sanding,it went together real nice.
They both shoot really good.
I do have a problem with Traditions though,I can never get through to them on the phone(anyone have a working telephone #?).
I ordered some stuff online after Christmas,have'nt seen it yet!
I emailed them and they said everything was on backorder,likely story!!
So I order my stuff elsewhere now.
Bill
Zemanar,
This is right from the top of a over the counter invoice from Traditions. Since I live in CT I can go right down to the distribtuion center and buy directly from them.
TRADITIONS
Performance Firearms
1375 Boston Post Road
Old Syabrook, Ct 06475
860-388-4656
This is right from the top of a over the counter invoice from Traditions. Since I live in CT I can go right down to the distribtuion center and buy directly from them.
TRADITIONS
Performance Firearms
1375 Boston Post Road
Old Syabrook, Ct 06475
860-388-4656
