BIG big game-What did you use?

[Spikebuck]

For those who have successfully knocked down really big big game (moose, bison, brown or grizzly bear, African game like Eland, Cape Buffalo, large Kudu, etc) with traditional muzzleloaders, what caliber/load did you use? What kind of knock-down results did you see? If you've been to Africa, did you use a consultant and what issues, if any, did you have getting guns and powder to your destination?

Pictures would be great!

 

[flintbuilder]

I shot an ornry old buffulo at about 50 yards with a .530 with 120gr FF goex powder, from my first build a pecatonica half stock hawken. One good placed shot and about thirty yard later he dropped. I wish I had picks for ya.

 

[hellerodsyahoo.com]

Go to the library and get the books about President Teddy Rooseavelt's Africa safari hunting trips at the heyday of blackpowder weapons, a super insight as to Cal.& ammo-------Leebone

 

[paulvallandigham]

For the BIg, Big game you describe, large bore guns, beginning with the .54, then going on up with the .58( 24 gauge), .62( 20 Gauge), .66( 16 ga.) .69( 14 gauge) .73( 12 gauge), .75(10 gauge), and then the larger smooth bores, in 8 ga., 6 ga., 4 ga. and 2 ga. were used. All shots tended to be taken at 50 yards and less. in some cases, the lead was an alloy, like our "wheelweight" to give the ball a greater hardness than a pure lead ball. The idea was to make the ball harder for deeper penetration on Rhino, and Elephant, and Hippo.

All are very large animals, with thick hides. The only animal in N. America that approaches this size of animal would be the Moose, but it has relatively thin skin, and a large bore Rifle, shooting a pure lead ball of at least 3/4 oz. is going to put any moose down with a solid hit to the chest. If you read thru past posts on this forum, you will find that RBs have proven totally effective for taking large bears, moose, and caribou, provided you get close enough. Pass thru shots are the norm, even on these animals, with a few hunters reporting finding a flattened slug under the off-side hide on large bears, occasionally.

The advantages of these large bore MLers are: that they leave a huge entrance wound that lets out a lot of blood; you can use powder charges that don't dislocate your shoulder, but still put enough energy in that large ball to get deep penetration of the vital organs; and the guns will allow you to shoot at game out to 100 yards, about as far as you want to be with open sights, and the trajectory of any RB.

Do penetration testing to give you the confidence in your rifle before you go into the field. You will be surprised at how deep these large balls will penetrate any test medium you use. Then study the animals you intend to hunt to get an idea of the actual size of their chest cavities. Visit a zoo and observe the animals as close as you can get. :hatsoff:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

We went for Moose in 2003, and the load was a .50 caliber, 340 grain Maxi-hunter, made with wheel weight alloy from a mold, over 90 grains of 2Fg, with a max range of 100 yards. This was checked by the guide, who would not allow patched round ball of that caliber.., rightly so..., but approved of the conical load. Rifle barrel twist rate was 1:48, and the accuracy of the load was checked out to 100 yards.

No moose were seen that year ..., too dang warm, but two years later, one of the guys took a nice black bear with the same load.

LD

 

[Ron LaClair]

This is a picture of a bull moose that I took in Ontario Canada in 1979. The gun was a new back then, .62 Jaeger. The load was 200gr's of 2FF behind a .610 prb.

The moose jumped from his bed and ran straight away, the ball caught up with him at about 50yd's entering the inside of the left hind quarter. It traveled full length of the animal stopping just under the hide slightly right of center in the brisket. The bull traveled about 100yds, leaving a blood trail from blood coming out the nose and mouth.

 

[Ron LaClair]

A cow bison taken a few winters ago. I carried two guns, my .62 jaeger and a .62 smoothbore. The first shot from the rifle at 70yd's didn't seem to have much effect. A followup shot with the smoothbore from about 80yd's was about the same causing the cow to flinch like it was stung by a bee. After a short trot the cows hind end gave out and it went down. She tried a couple times to get up but couldn't make it.

The rifle was loaded with 120gr's 2FF behind a prb, the smoothbore with 80gr's 2FF behind a prb.

Both shots hit the rib cage inches apart, passed through the lungs and out the other side.

An idea of the size of the critter.

 

[BillinOregon]

NWTF: I bow to your experience! It looks just a might chilly in that bison-skinning photo.

Spikebuck: One of the best single sources of information exactly on the point of your posts is ""Wild Beasts and Their Ways," by Sir Samuel Baker. This was first published about 1890 or 91, but there are lots of great reprints out there. Baker started a nearly scientific preoccupation with rifle and projectile design when he began hunting elephants in Ceylon in the 1850s. His era spanned the period when percussion double rifles gave way to the early BP cartridge doubles, right up to the dawn of the smokeless era. Trust, me, you will love this book, as Baker is very specific about all the different bore sizes and their load data as applied to virtually all the world's dangerous game, and especially the African species.

 

[Vaino]

Val Forget {owner of Navy Arms} wrote some articles of his hunts in Africa using .58 and .62 cals. w/ conicals and huge powder loads. The heavy conicals were cast from a very hard lead alloy and on some conicals a hollow point was made and a round nosed steel rivet was inserted. As I recall, one of the rifles was their converted .58 Zoave musket that was sold as the Buffalo Gun. Another was the Navy Arms Hawken but don't remember the cal. As I recall, some of the powder charges were 200 grs 3f. Extensive testing was done to "proof" both the rifles and the shooters. He published photos of a hippo and cape buffalo that were shot. Don't think they went for elephant. Very interesting articles.....Fred

 

[hellerodsyahoo.com]

I remember reading that the old timers added a small amount of tin to their lead balls to help penatrate thick skinned large animals, I would love to have been on some of those early hunting trips for big game!!!!!!! Leebone

 

[Spikebuck]

NWTF Longhunter: GREAT pictures...especially that moose picture! I assume in the Bison picture taken just recently that the white on your beard is from the frost!!! :grin: Funny that mine looks frosted now-a-days as well..cold or not! I would venture to say that if a ball will go end-to-end through a moose it would penetrate most critters through and through on a broadside shot. Bison must be really tough because I've seen a couple taken on DVD and the reaction is the same you describe despite a very lethal first shot...they don't even react, but they don't stand a really long time either.

Others: Great book references..I'll be looking those up.

Keep the info coming! As you might guess, I'm starting to think about some hunts I've dreamed of my whole life, but always put off saving for kids college or paying for a house, etc. I guess the advantage of being "older" is those things finally go away, but now I've got to get going if those dreams are going to become reality. I really need to do any of these hunts with traditional black powder guns or it just wouldn't even be worth doing. Africa will be one of my first adventures, perhaps in 2013 or 2014.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Took a 1000 lb buffalo with a .54 shooting .535 home made Round Balls over a .15 prelubed patch over 90 grains of Pyrodex RS and a cap. From the ear, 3" back and 6" down and droped it in its tracks at 70-ish yards.
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