big game rifle

[Mr Hawken]

hi all i have a question regarding a .50 as a big game rifle. i know it can do the job but was thinking of buying a green mountain barrel in .54 cal for my hawken.i shot my first animal this fall it was a doe at 75 yards with a roundball.would i be better with a .54 instead of a .50? i think i would be using conicals instead of roundballs on my moose hunt. what about a smoothbore barrel in a .54 any ideas?

 

Did you find you had problems with the doe you shot at 75 yards? Shot placement is everything. A .50 will do just fine. Personally I am a fan of bigger is better as muzzleloaders don't destroy meat just punch a nice hole in and out. I guess ideally in some game you might want to transfer that energy into the game and not pass through but that would have to do with the softness of the ball and charge I guess.

If your looking for an excuse to buy a new barrel, oh yea a .54 is the way to go!!! lol

Good luck! I'm waiting for my .62 Green Mtn to get here so I can send it off to Rayl to get it rifled. Then I am kicking around the idea of ordering a stock from Dick Greensides to make my TC more PC. LOL

Have fun!

BILLY

 

[Mr Hawken]

i didn't have any problem with my doe she dropped dead in her tracks. i shot my biggest whitetail buck ever unforntantly with my wifes 270 wsm at the same distance and went about 50 yards into the bush before folding up. i know how tough an elk can be to put down so i would rater have a little more than a little less.what about conicals in my .50? i have found a excellent load with 385gr maxi balls with good groups in my .50 would that be enough?

 

I'm sorry missed the moose part, I would for sure go with a bigger ball or a barrel that handles conicals. Gotta watch your rate of twist ya know.

Good luck,

Billy

 

[Hunter66]

I like hunting with roundballs when I have the snow to track on. The deer I have shot with both 50 and 54 RBs have required tracking even after well placed shots. Like Billy LO said a hole in and a hole out. I have found hollow point conicals and and lots of BP behind it to work wonders for anchoring deer when I use them. I get conical bullets from Cecil Epp at Precision Rifle his products are great. Precision Rifle Bullets
I have also seen excellent results from the Powerbelt bullets my buddies are shooting. I know somebody will chastise me for even mentioning them but they work great. I think the big question is what twist are you shooting and will it handle a heavy load and a big conical bullet. I personally would opt for 54 and around a 400 grain conical flat nose. I know from experience that elk sometimes leave little blood to follow. I would look to hit the lungs and break a shoulder and try to anchor him. Take a look at Precision Rifle he has a lot geared toward inlines but he also has plenty for the rest of us, with hollow points, flat nose, round nose etc. When I get around to an elk with a round ball I think it will be 62 cal, I like the bigger is better theory. So there is my 2 cents worth.

P.S. I think the 385 out of the 50 would work fine but I like to be over rather than under gunned. There is no such thing as TOO dead.

 

[Tim Clark]

Shooting them with a .50 prb is like stabbing them through with a #4 rebar. Shooting them with a .54 is like stabbing them through with a cement-coated #4 rebar. To get all the way up to a #5 rebar, you'd have to go to a .62.

Okay, so we're not stabbing them with anything. But given relative tissue damage IF the ball doesn't tumble around inside the critter, what's the difference between a pass-through and being stabbed as described above?

I've never yet had opportunity to go moose hunting. Never shot one. So I figure that eliminates me from commenting on the subject of moose hunting about as much as the fact that I've never given birth keeps me from commenting on how to make babies. It doesn't. Me, personally, I'd get the .54, as long as it's a drop in for the same .50 gun, work up loads for both and hunt with the one you have most confidence in, i.e. shoot well consistently, see the damage the balls or conicals cause in different media, stuff like that. And sure, also base your decision on the experience of others. But not only on that experience. If you do like I said, you'll be sure on that first, all-important shot, with no demons of doubt about how maybe that well-meaning person just mighta been wrong... Make sure for yourself. Either way, you won't regret getting that .54 and you'll still have the .50 as well.

2 cents deposited.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Hard to beat the 54cal roundball!

 

[paulvallandigham]

I really can't advise using any conical on deer, as its not necessary. If you will pick your shots, and aim to put your ball quartering through the front of the deer so its breaks a leg going in, or coming out, the deer is not going very far. Certainly if you are going to use conicals, there is no excuse NOT to try to break a leg going or coming. You do want to shoot into the lower 1/3 of the chest area, so that you cause maximum bleeding, and destruction of both lower lung lobes, and major blood vessel, even if you miss the heart.

 

[Dphar]

hi all i have a question regarding a .50 as a big game rifle. i know it can do the job but was thinking of buying a green mountain barrel in .54 cal for my hawken.i shot my first animal this fall it was a doe at 75 yards with a roundball.would i be better with a .54 instead of a .50? i think i would be using conicals instead of roundballs on my moose hunt. what about a smoothbore barrel in a .54 any ideas?

With proper shot placement the 50 is perfectly adequate for deer I have killed mule deer at near twice 75 yards with a 50 using 490 rb and 90 gr fffg. Shot placement is far more important than the size of the hole so long as its adequate.
People I have had contact with report that conicals in slow twist barrels don't work real well on moose. The bullets don't track real straight. 54 will kill moose with lung shots with a round ball. Probably better than a 50 conical if used 100 yards or under. 62 rb would be better, bigger is always better.
American Longrifle site's hunting forum is another place to ask about shooting moose. Some Canadians there with a lot of experience.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Excuse me the American Longrifel sites SHOOTING forum. Not hunting. Was thinking of the wrong site.

Dan[url] NitroExpress.com[/url] has a BP forum too.

 

[Headhunter]

Personally, I feel the .50 to be more than adequate for any North America Big Game. Muzzleloaders are 100 yard rifles. We can stretch it out to 150, but 100 it typically the norm. More than likely, MUCH less.

If you put a 50 cal roundball through their gizzard, they ain't going far.

Headhunter

 

[Blizzard of '93]

The .50 is definitely enuff for anything east of the Mississipi. Out west with the big mule deer, griz/brown bear and elk - I'd have to consider larger bore - maybe a .58 or .62? :hmm: Shot placement is King, penetration is Queen!

 

[Headhunter]

Yep, I agree 100%.

I would say that if I had to have only one rifle to pack, I would have to go with a .58.

I have one and it is accurate as any 50 I have ever owned. That big ball sure does a job on critters.

HH

 

[BrownBear]

Along with smaller stuff I've got a 50 and a 54. Can't say which is better for elk and moose because I've always grabbed the 54 for those. PRB works dandy on broadside lung shots inside 75 yards, but could only speculate about other shots and longer ranges. I'd rather speculate on the 50 PRB for the same shots, based on performance on deer compared with 54 PRB on deer. Basically, I doubt an elk would notice the difference, and I kinda doubt a moose would either. Idle speculation, but I'd have no qualms with my own 50 and my experience, marksmanship and woodcraft.

I haven't tried a 58, but my pard has one. He's never shot moose or elk, but based on what I've seen on deer, I'm sorry it's his and not mine.

But if I'm going bigger than 54, one of Don Stith's Hawkens in 62 cal is really tickling my fancy right now. Do I feel I really need it? Nah, but are we talking about need here? I figure if 50 is good, 54 is better, and 58 is even better, then I simply gotta have a 62!

 

[Dphar]

I really can't advise using any conical on deer, as its not necessary. If you will pick your shots, and aim to put your ball quartering through the front of the deer so its breaks a leg going in, or coming out, the deer is not going very far. Certainly if you are going to use conicals, there is no excuse NOT to try to break a leg going or coming. You do want to shoot into the lower 1/3 of the chest area, so that you cause maximum bleeding, and destruction of both lower lung lobes, and major blood vessel, even if you miss the heart.

This is all perfectly true. The conicals really need faster twists and generally a redesigned nose to work well, even more so on critters larger than deer from what I am told.
Deer with a broken front leg and the vital areas behind struck tend to run 40 yards and drop, depending on the critters mind set it seems. Same thing without breaking the leg. I hate the bigger problem with meat cutting so I avoid it, or at least don't intentionally shoot for it.
If your ball is under 50 cal and the deer big penetration can be iffy if you break big bones. The slow twist (under 25-30") with a conical may be even worse in they may veer wildly and miss the vitals. I've never used them.
On elk you better have at least a 62 if you get into the front leg bones, 66 would be better. I did this once, by accident, with a 54 and it worked but had the ball veered forward any it would have been bad, did veer badly but after it holed the big artery just above the heart. Elk went down for 20 seconds or so then got up and ran about 50 yards (toward the road :grin: ). 80 yards +- 1800 fps at muzzle 530 rb.
Bigger critters, moose, big G bears I would not shoot for the bone unless I had a 3 caliber long bullet in 18-20 twist or better, a hardened 16 to 10 bore ball. These are very well proven killers on bigger big game in exotic (to us anyway) locations.
For you conical fans, yes the conical can be "devastating" on deer. But have you shot 8 or 10 with a round ball and similar shot placement? You might be surprised. There is so much variation in the vitality of critters that it takes a lot of shooting to get an accurate "average" in such things. Then we must consider that a RB of equal weight is going to do better anyway. This was all hashed out 150 years ago but modern marketing pushes "new and improved" even if its not new or even better.
I was already hunting with RB rifles when the "maxi-ball" came out and never realized such things were needed.
I hate shooting up the heart. It tastes good.
Dan

 

[roundball]

hi all i have a question regarding a .50 as a big game rifle. i know it can do the job but was thinking of buying a green mountain barrel in .54 cal for my hawken.i shot my first animal this fall it was a doe at 75 yards with a roundball.would i be better with a .54 instead of a .50? i think i would be using conicals instead of roundballs on my moose hunt. what about a smoothbore barrel in a .54 any ideas?

If you've already got a .50cal and are considering another caliber, particularly with moose in mind, my advice would be "don't take a small step"...take a "double step" and get a GM .58cal 1" x 33" x 1:70" drop-in round ball barrel.

I have one in Flint and it's 279grn ball makes it a very powerful, and extremely accurate muzzleloader...take most anything on the NA continent with it...wouldn't part with mine.

 

[Headhunter]

And those Green Mountain 58's SHOOT~!

Incredible accuracy and wampum big nockdown.

HH

 

[Mr Hawken]

hey guys thanks for the input. the only problem with a .58 is that my rifle is 15/16 across and not 1" from all my research i can only got as high as a .54. here in canada our options are limited and traditional muzzleloaders are hard to find.i can get a gmb in 54 for about $200.00 but just didn't know if i would see much of a benefit over my .50

 

[Sharp Shooter]

hey guys thanks for the input. the only problem with a .58 is that my rifle is 15/16 across and not 1" from all my research i can only got as high as a .54. here in canada our options are limited and traditional muzzleloaders are hard to find.i can get a gmb in 54 for about $200.00 but just didn't know if i would see much of a benefit over my .50

You will not regret it. Have one of each caliber.

 

[aloyalistdawg]

Hey Guys
Ok well if you want to use the fangled stuff then do it. But hey I use real muzzle loader ammo... Black Bear, Deer and down is ok for a 50!! Any thing bigger use a 54 plus, plus... and I would stick to round ball, or maxi ball or use modern... That's my 2 cents again...
My best regards just a loyalist Dawg :hatsoff: