Bill Large Plains Rifle

[Brent]

That's a very nice looking rifle, but I've never seen a Bill Large barrel marked that way. I don’t claim to be an expert, but I always keep an eye out for them. I own two Large rifles that are early ones, and the later rifles that I have seen are marked differently than this, so this is a new variation for me.

Has anyone else seen barrels marked this this one?

 

[david58]

I came across two Bill Large guns in a gun shop in Santa Fe a couple of years ago. At least they were attributed to him. Very chunky, blocky - looked like half the wood could have come off that stock to find a nice rifle underneath. OP's is purty.

David
NM

 

[mushka]

I have a cap .45 cal rifle with a Bill Large 4J barrel that shoots well when the lock decides it wants to act right. It's a full stocked rifle and I can't find anything on it that identifies the builder. All is good except the lock needs work,

 

[Brent]

I have a cap .45 cal rifle with a Bill Large 4J barrel that shoots well when the lock decides it wants to act right. It's a full stocked rifle and I can't find anything on it that identifies the builder. All is good except the lock needs work,

Locks from that era must have been almost all junk, except for Bob's. Both of my Large rifles had junk locks. One got replaced. The other is more problematic and I haven't sorted it out yet.

 

[mushka]

brent, what lock did you replace the old lock?

 

[Brent]

brent, what lock did you replace the old lock?

I was able to use an L&R with very little fitting work. Very lucky there. The original lock had no half cock, no fly (of course), and flopped all over the place. It had a very light spring as well. Just a mess. Oh yeah, someone had soldered copper wire to the sear to lengthen the striking bar while also allowing the set trigger to actually hit it - that broke off almost instantly. If there was anything right with that lock, it was that it was just a few thousands of an inch smaller than an L&R so that the new lock dropped into the mortice with just a little scraping here and there.

Not sure what to do about the other Large rifle. It is a .45 and has a similarly junk lock. But it is not going to be easily replaced with something else on the market - at least not that I can find.

Why make a beautiful rifle, with the best barrels ever made and then fit it to a junk lock?

If you have never had a Large barreled gun, you have missed the treat of the incredible smoothness as you run a patch or seat a ball. Just really special.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

I came across two Bill Large guns in a gun shop in Santa Fe a couple of years ago. At least they were attributed to him. Very chunky, blocky - looked like half the wood could have come off that stock to find a nice rifle underneath. OP's is purty.

David
NM

Probably Chunk Guns.

 

[BozoMiller]

This is a very fine gun.

 

[3 trees]

I own two Bill Large barrels, would part with them for anything!

 

[Bighorserider]

I messed up a few years ago when I had a chance to buy a gun a lot like that one with a Large barrel gor $400 and I passed.

 

[rich pierce]

I came across two Bill Large guns in a gun shop in Santa Fe a couple of years ago. At least they were attributed to him. Very chunky, blocky - looked like half the wood could have come off that stock to find a nice rifle underneath. OP's is purty.

David
NM

These were almost certainly not Bill Large guns. He was a barrel maker. Unlike most barrel makers he liked to show his mark not on the bottom flat, but on the diagonal sideplate flat. Guns with Bill Large barrels were made by many hundreds of makers. Maybe thousands of makers.

 

[rickystl]

Congratulations. Looks like an awesome rifle with a Large barrel. And the lock is an interesting addition.

I remember during the early to mid 1970's Bill was the only true "custom" barrel maker. I seem to recall there was a year's wait even back then. The only commercial barrels then were from Numrich and Douglas. With Dixie coming a bit latter with their 6 groove barrels from Japan. There were only a couple of custom lock/trigger makers then. Bob Roller's locks and triggers were much sought after for the Hawken rifle craze during the 1970's. The name of the other lock maker escapes me for the moment.

Rick

 

[david58]

These were almost certainly not Bill Large guns. He was a barrel maker. Unlike most barrel makers he liked to show his mark not on the bottom flat, but on the diagonal sideplate flat. Guns with Bill Large barrels were made by many hundreds of makers. Maybe thousands of makers.

Makes sense. My Hawken has a Sharon barrel with a Bill Large breech, but not a patent breech. Very nice shooting full stock, and in a full stock I wouldn't want to be removing the barrel very often anyway - my luck would result in a broken stock.

I wish those rifles down in Santa Fe were less expensive - the components are nice, I'd only have to take off about half the wood and I'd have two very nice rifles. But they'd have to danged near given em away before I would do that, might have to ask for a price. Managed to score a Trapdoor in beautiful condition (including clear cartouches) for $400 in the same shop a couple of years ago.

 

[david58]

Congratulations. Looks like an awesome rifle with a Large barrel. And the lock is an interesting addition.

I remember during the early to mid 1970's Bill was the only true "custom" barrel maker. I seem to recall there was a year's wait even back then. The only commercial barrels then were from Numrich and Douglas. With Dixie coming a bit latter with their 6 groove barrels from Japan. There were only a couple of custom lock/trigger makers then. Bob Roller's locks and triggers were much sought after for the Hawken rifle craze during the 1970's. The name of the other lock maker escapes me for the moment.

Rick

You had Ron Long making locks, and Silers were there too, if I recollect correctly.

 

[Rawhide67]

I have a 45 cal Hawken with a Bill Large 4J barrel. The builders name is on the bottom barrel flat. I'm not worried about lock quality as both the lock and trigger were built by Bob Roller. I have never fired this gun. And wouldn't be surprised if it's never been fired before me either.

 

[Brent]

I have a 45 cal Hawken with a Bill Large 4J barrel. The builders name is on the bottom barrel flat. I'm not worried about lock quality as both the lock and trigger were built by Bob Roller. I have never fired this gun. And wouldn't be surprised if it's never been fired before me either.

Why have you never fired it? Heck of a nice rifle to not use.

 

[Rawhide67]

It's front heavy to me, and in minty condition. I have several other guns to shoot and never wanted to scratch this one or leave marks.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

I've modified musket locks to install a fly. The easiest way to do it is to slot the tumbler for the fly, cut the notch, then pin the fly in the slot. It is still a day's work with handtools, but I have better luck doing it that way than cutting a recess like on a Siler tumbler, for example.

I know a lot of guys who have done that. But, it certainly takes a little bit of skill and knowledge.

 

[TDM]

This is an interesting plains Rifle with a Bill Large barrel. I do not have in hand just yet. Has a 33" .54 caliber barrel. What I think is cleaver is the builder used a repurposed Whitney US musket lock dated 1848. What I consider to be a good representation of a frrontier lock replacement. Thoughts?View attachment 183351View attachment 183352View attachment 183353

Fits the rifle nicely. Beautiful, you did well.

 

[rich pierce]

I have a 45 cal Hawken with a Bill Large 4J barrel. The builders name is on the bottom barrel flat. I'm not worried about lock quality as both the lock and trigger were built by Bob Roller. I have never fired this gun. And wouldn't be surprised if it's never been fired before me either.

You must like looking at it. I have guns like that but they are originals. Then again I’m not in the habit of buying contemporary guns but if I had a beauty I might feel the same. I bet it would sell easily.