Unusual (to me) Bill Large barreled rifle

[Packrat]

Sorry it took so long, dealing with Covid, slowing me down

 

[William Sublette]

Sorry it took so long, dealing with Covid, slowing me down

FYI I too have a Bill Large barreled Hawkin style. My understanding is that he passed his equipment to the Green River Rifle Works in Utah.
My barrel is lightly marked on the top s such, will try to add a picture after I've had more coffee, moving s!ow as I finally caught Covid last week

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Is it a trade rifle?

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Tell us more about your good looking plains rifle.

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Yes!!!!!!! Tell me about it!!!!! This is a photo of my ancestor's rifle that he carried from Missouri to Oregon in 1845. It has no markings anywhere but was obviously made by the same hand. When I saw your post I about had a stroke! I've been searching for decades trying to learn something about my heirloom and this is the first hint of success! Mine is a 40 caliber with a tapered barrel.
In thinking about it your's could be a close copy of one that was made by the same hand as mine was made. Yours appears to be in excellent condition.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

I was told that it was made by Alexander McComas that owned a shop at Calvert Street in 1843, and later on Fayette Street in Baltimore.
It's a .40 caliber, 32" octagonal barrel, but not the original rod, with brass & silver furniture & set triggers.
It was also my father's muzzleloading deer gun of choice for many a moon.

In my excitement I missed this post. Are there any markings on your rifle and how did it end up in your family? There are some interesting questions coming to mind such as how did my ancestor acquire a rifle made in Baltimore since he lived in Missouri? Questions that will never be answered probably. They appear to be twins as near as I can tell so far.

 

[HighUintas]

Yes!!!!!!! Tell me about it!!!!! This is a photo of my ancestor's rifle that he carried from Missouri to Oregon in 1845. It has no markings anywhere but was obviously made by the same hand. When I saw your post I about had a stroke! I've been searching for decades trying to learn something about my heirloom and this is the first hint of success! Mine is a 40 caliber with a tapered barrel.
In thinking about it your's could be a close copy of one that was made by the same hand as mine was made. Yours appears to be in excellent condition.

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I'm fairly certain there's one just like this in the mountain man museum in Pinedale Wyoming. I had a picture but can't find it

 

[HighUintas]

I'm fairly certain there's one just like this in the mountain man museum in Pinedale Wyoming. I had a picture but can't find it

False alarm. It's just a very similar rifle.

 

[Packrat]

When I received the rifle it had a note attached, Contemporary Trade Rifle, caliber 58
It does not have a hooked breach and so far I have not been able to remove the barrel from the stock

 

[Barry Strickland]

F Sappington,
The rifle looks like like an English sporting rifle because it is one.
There were all grades of guns imported from England to many of the larger gun stores. This one is of the higher order of guns
that were imported for sale. The engraving on the bar lock is excellent as is the checkering.
When the barrel was fitted to the original hook breech the iron bar was not replaced. A piece of wood was fitted over the
bar lock instead.
I would be very curious, if the barrel were removed from the stock, to see if it originally had a octogen to round barrel.
That is a very nice heirloom you have there and I think anyone would be happy to have it hanging on the wall.
Barry

 

[F Sappington]

In my excitement I missed this post. Are there any markings on your rifle and how did it end up in your family? There are some interesting questions coming to mind such as how did my ancestor acquire a rifle made in Baltimore since he lived in Missouri? Questions that will never be answered probably. They appear to be twins as near as I can tell so far.

Mine doesn't appear to have any markings that I can see.
But I see that yours is a back lock as well with what appears to be identical set triggers & fore end cap.
I'll snap some pics as soon as I can & we can compare the twins.
The info I found on Alexander McComas was found here.

 

[45man]

My gosh it must have been 60 years since I spoke to Bill! Time sure flies.
I have a Bob Roller lock on my Hawken ans a set of double set triggers in a drawer yet

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Here are a few closer shots for comparison. The barrel numbers are: 35" long, breach 1.030, muzzle .850. 7 groove left hand 36" twist. The last photo is a similar one I built with a couple of modifications. I lengthened the fore end because the balance point on the original is ahead of the entry thimble so that the rifle is carried with the ramrod on the fingers. Really uncomfortable since it weighs 8 lbs. 14 oz. I also used a single trigger. The lock is from a J D Dougall shotgun.

 

[user 34300]

The OP rifle is interesting. It appears to be a reworked original. It is unfortunate that no rib was installed. The drip edge over the lock was deleted. I bet the original barrel was crusty so a hobbyist did what the could to make it functional. I'd defiantly revise the conversation to conform to the original design if it were mine. It would been even better to rebore or reline. 70 years ago people did not value fine old guns as we do today. Nice find though.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

I also have a Hawken with a Bill Large barrel, JJJJ stamp. I read somewhere a few years ago, that he tested his barrels and the most accurate got the 4J stamp. Could be rumor.

The most accurate ones had 7 grooves. Was your gun built by him, or does it just have his barrel?

 

[F Sappington]

I'm not certain, but I'd guess that it was a build using one of his barrels.

 

[F Sappington]

Here are a few closer shots for comparison. The barrel numbers are: 35" long, breach 1.030, muzzle .850. 7 groove left hand 36" twist. The last photo is a similar one I built with a couple of modifications. I lengthened the fore end because the balance point on the original is ahead of the entry thimble so that the rifle is carried with the ramrod on the fingers. Really uncomfortable since it weighs 8 lbs. 14 oz. I also used a single trigger. The lock is from a J D Dougall shotgun.

In my excitement I missed this post. Are there any markings on your rifle and how did it end up in your family? There are some interesting questions coming to mind such as how did my ancestor acquire a rifle made in Baltimore since he lived in Missouri? Questions that will never be answered probably. They appear to be twins as near as I can tell so far.

I'm not sure of how it came to my father, but I'd guess some local horsetrading brought it here.

 

[Rawhide67]

The most accurate ones had 7 grooves. Was your gun built by him, or does it just have his barrel?

Gun was built by Tom Nixon, just has a Wm. Large barrel with 8 lands/grooves. The lock and triggers are by Bob Roller.

Ive heard 7 lands/grooves are top notch Douglas barrels, never heard that with regard to Wm Large.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Gun was built by Tom Nixon, just has a Wm. Large barrel with 8 lands/grooves. The lock and triggers are by Bob Roller.

Ive heard 7 lands/grooves are top notch Douglas barrels, never heard that with regard to Wm Large.

Bill did both. I was quoting him actually, from some interview. But here are some other references. 7 groove barrels [Archive] - North-South Skirmish Association BTW, if Tom Nixon built it, I am sure it's a shooter!

 

[Rawhide67]

Bill did both. I was quoting him actually, from some interview. But here are some other references. 7 groove barrels [Archive] - North-South Skirmish Association BTW, if Tom Nixon built it, I am sure it's a shooter!

I’ve never shot it. afraid to scratch it.