Black Powder brands/types??

[Knapper]

I have a 54 caliber GPR arriving in the mail, and want to be ready to shoot it when it arrives. But being new to flintlocks, I don't really know anything about powder.

Rebel recommended 3f for both the load and primer, which I plan to purchase. But are there different brands or manufacturers of powder? What is the normal price range for how much powder? I want to buy good powder, but I don't want to get ripped off at some retailer.

Thanks,

Knapper ::

 

[Rebel]

Well whatever you do, don't let anybody talk you into buying their Elepahant powder. You will want to give up on flinters before you get a good ignition with it. Get yourself some Goex, Scheutzin, or if you don't mind spending quite a bit more a lb. some Swiss powder. You can get Goex and Schuetzin by the case delivered for around $10 a lb right now, but it is going up soon. Try j&j pyrotechnics or Powder inc. for a case delivered. If you buy it by the lb. the price varies from place to place. It is $12.50 a lb here locally in Springfield from the Gun Works and $10.00 a lb if you buy it by the case. Other places around it is $15-$19 a lb. You could get 1 lb of 4f for priming, but i can't really tell the difference between it and 3f in ignition sped, and the 3f doesn't attract moisture as fast as the 4f does.

 

[pepperbelly]

For a .54 caliber you would want Goex FFg for the main charge and Goex FFFg for the priming powder. Goex is usually around $15.00 per pound in one pound cans. Bulk is cheaper.
Goex is generally the favored bp. Swiss is a sporting bp and is very good quality, but is more expensive.
HTH,
Jim

 

[Rebel]

Actually Knapper, you can use either 3f or 2f in a .54 cal. I always used 3f in mine, but you should try both abd see which works better in yours.

 

[brushbuster]

knapper
the only place i can get b/p here in san antonio is at don's gun shop at 16.00 a lb. :what:they are finally bringing a bass pro shop to s.a. and i hope they will carry it.there is a bass pro shop in the brookshire/katy area but i don't remember any place else down that way that carrys b/p . as soon as i can afford it i'm going to start buying by mail.
hopefully see you soon
jess

 

[roundball]

I have a 54 caliber GPR arriving in the mail, and want to be ready to shoot it when it arrives. But being new to flintlocks, I don't really know anything about powder.

Rebel recommended 3f for both the load and primer, which I plan to purchase. But are there different brands or manufacturers of powder? What is the normal price range for how much powder? I want to buy good powder, but I don't want to get ripped off at some retailer.

Thanks,

Knapper ::

I won't go to all the trouble and expense of this sport to then use any powder that was less than perfect...and all I use is Goex...fast, clean, accurate, reasonably priced, etc.

4F prime everything
3F main in .45/.50/.54
2F main in .58/.62

 

[graybeard]

This is pretty narrow evidence, but when I first bought my .50 T/C Hawkens flintlock a guy gave me a can of 3F Goex. I primed with 4F goex and had no problems with slow firing or misfires. Got tired of the long cleaning routine, so I tried Black Mag 3. Very slow firing, some misfires. Had trouble finding Goex and bought 2F Elephant. Same problem, slow firing or misfires. Finally drove nearly a hundred miles each way and bought 3F Goex at $16 a pound. No more slow fires, no more misfires. Probably not statistically valid evidence, but I'll never use anything but 3F Goex in that rifle anymore. Graybeard :m2c:

 

[Knapper]

Thanks for the advice and info. I guess I will go with 3f Goex.

Knapper :redthumb:

 

[Rat]

Goex is great powder and I love it, but I've found nothing comes even close to comparing to Swiss...it is the Chrysler Imperial of black powder, the bee's knees, the cat's meow...it's really good stuff.

It is almost as clean burning as the "fake" powders in a rifle. It is so good, IMHO, that I don't see the extra cost as any disadvantage. The main trouble is finding any nearby. One of these days when I have the money I'll actually buy a whole case of it.

Having said that, you'll be pleased with Goex. I would heed the advice about Elephant, from what I've heard.

Schutezen is supposed to be "almost" as good as Swiss and I've noticed it is quite a bit less expensive...but I have never shot it.

If anyone has Swiss near you, at the very least try it out...otherwise Goex would be my only other choice.

Rat

 

[musketman]

I love GOEX powder, nothing smells as good as a freshly opened can of GOEX powder, they should make a man's cologne in that scent... :winking: :haha:

 

[Protrucker]

Roundball,
You say to use 3F in the .54 instead of 2F.
Why not 2F?
I'm not trying to be smart or anything, but I have been using 2F Goex in both percussion & flint for moer than 25 years now & never had any trouble with it. My hunting load is 80 grains of 2F for main charge and 4F in the pan on my flintlock.

 

[Rebel]

If you are getting good results with 2f Goex there is no need to use 3f. Some guns prefer one, some the other. Obviously yours like 2f, so i wouldn't change a thing.

 

[roundball]

Roundball,
You say to use 3F in the .54 instead of 2F.
Why not 2F?
I'm not trying to be smart or anything, but I have been using 2F Goex in both percussion & flint for moer than 25 years now & never had any trouble with it. My hunting load is 80 grains of 2F for main charge and 4F in the pan on my flintlock.

No...I said nothing of the kind...and nothing I posted said anything about trouble...it sounds like you might be assuming it's an "either / or" situation and it's not...I just happen to use and like Goex FFFg in those calibers...and that's what I said.

Contrary to a lot of established lore about which granulation to use with which caliber, 3F indeed is outstanding for me in .45/.50/.54 calibers...very fast, very clean, very accurate.

IMO, I think the 3F / 2F decision is better suited to a "weight / recoil" relationship than caliber per se...for large heavy projectiles to have a more moderate recoil.

ie: I use 2F shooting a 255grn maxi-hunter in the .45...but for round balls in those calibers, 3F has been perfect for me...no need to change it and wouldn't change it for the world.

On the same basis of "weight / recoil", I use 2F for the heavier .58cal round balls.

I never post things to try and say "my way is better than your way"...I just post what I do, what works for me...if you prefer 2F, then by golly you should keep right on using it

 

[jgray]

I agree with you, roundball. As far as the 2F vs. 3F debate, use what works for you. I have seen three different recommendations from powder and/or muzzleloader manufacturers regarding powder granulations. First was 2F should be used in anything over .45 cal, second was that it should be used in rifles over .50 cal, and the third said to use for .54-.75 cal..

I guess you should get a pound of each and let your gun decide. I personally never tried 3F in a .54, but the Renegade I was using at the time was my dad's, and I wasn't buying the powder. I only have .50 cal.s now and anything from 75 to 90 grains of 3F works great for me. So from that I think your best bet would be to start at around 70 grains and increase your charge until your groups open up. You should run a patch through the barrel a few times after each shot when testing loads though.

 

I have two .54 rifles, a GPR flintlock, and a T/C caplock, and shoot Goex 3Fg in both of them with no problem. I use Goex 4Fg to prime the pan on the Lyman, but that's just because I bought the can of 4Fg before I knew it was okay to prime using 3Fg, or I'd prime with that too. I pretty much shoot PRB only, and just leave my measure on 50 grains, and they shoot great.

 

[Protrucker]

Sorry...I wasn't trying to start a "my way is better" debate. I was just wondering if there was a reason, that I didn't know about, why 3F was better than 2F.
You mention one having more recoil than the other. Which will produce the greater recoil? I've got a partial can of 3F that was given to me, but I've never tried it yet. I guess that I'm going to have to make a point of trying it & see how it works.

 

[leslie]

A lot of shooters don't seem to like Elephant,I used it for years in a trade gun and in caplocks with good results.I use Scheutzen now,its excellent,very clean and even granulation.The last batch of Goex I used was very dirty and did not give good results,a bad batch I guess.Scheutzen is the best bet IMO.

 

[roundball]

Sorry...I wasn't trying to start a "my way is better" debate. I was just wondering if there was a reason, that I didn't know about, why 3F was better than 2F.
You mention one having more recoil than the other. Which will produce the greater recoil? I've got a partial can of 3F that was given to me, but I've never tried it yet. I guess that I'm going to have to make a point of trying it & see how it works.

I didn't think you were...I just wanted to be sure you knew I wasn't trying to either.

The smaller the granulations, the faster and hotter they burn, causing a faster pressure spike, compared to the larger slower burning granulations.

The faster, sharper pressure spike results in increased recoil, and is more noticable as the size and weight of the projectile gets larger and larger...as you know, heavier objects tend to remain in place longer before they start moving and fast buring powder under those circumstances create higher pressure spikes and more recoil.

That's way I believe that granulation/burn time/pressure spike/recoil is more appropriately thought of in terms of the projectile size & weight regardless of caliber, instead of trying to peg a particular granulation to a particular caliber for all projectiles in that caliber.

In my examples above...FFFg is simply outstanding for me with patched round balls in those three calibers, with their particluar projectile weights.

However, even in the little .45, when I go to a 255grn conical (2 X the weight of a .45cal ball) I switch to FFg to avoid the sharp pressure curve and increased recoil I'd get with FFFg.

Do I need to?
Dunno........but that's what I do...accuracy is outstanding, fouling is minimal, recoil is routine, etc...

 

Knapper,
This is Goex's site you may very well want to look at

http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

 

[Mad Irish Jack]

I have experimented occasionally but Goex is it. My .54 cal Early Lancaster likes 75 gr of FFg. My .36 cal Pedersoli Frontier rifle eats 40 gr of FFFg and My Center/Mark .62 cal Tulle de Chase likes 80 gr of FFFg. I'm actually 5 and 10 grains light on my load for the Tulle. When I was ordering it on the porch of Mr. Woodall (Previous owner/maker of Center/Marks) :winking:I was given privy to letters of thanks listing the loads and info of some national champions who used his smoothies. Most were using the .600 RB and .015 cotton patch over 85 or 90 grains of FFFg Goex Powders. ::Been using it all my ML life (since 1978). :m2c: