Black Powder Retailers - Endangered???

[jdixon]

Last fall I had three retailers in my area selling Goex by the can. As of today, none of them are selling the stuff. They all cite increased insurance costs and lack of interest in the product (no surprise there!) One former dealer said they were tired of the ATF harassment about the stuff, another said his wholesaler was having trouble getting it so he quit selling it. You can sure find Pyrodex, 777 and every other one of those candy corn based substitute powders, standard black powder is non-existent. I know you can get it from Powder Inc., and that is probably what I will do. I hope the ATF is happy that they will now have a citizen with a 25 lb. stock pile in their house because he cannot go to the store and buy it by the pound when he needs it :blah:
I see on the forum here that many others are having the same problems. Call me paranoid but it seems as if there is a directed effort to remove this product from the hands of the consumer. You don't think the in-line manufacturers would have anything to do with this :hmm: - nay! Thanks for listening to me gripe!

 

[Russianblood]

I can still find it locally but even a 5 lb lot from Powder Inc. is cheaper (price, hazmat and shipping included).

 

[Swampman]

If anyone here is still supporting the faux powder market, this should be a lesson to them.

 

[roundball]

You don't think the in-line manufacturers would have anything to do with this

They don't have to waste their time with such follishness...the advertising hype blitz they've been using has been extremely successful as it is.

IMO, another reason real BP is disappearing at the local level is that essentially nobody is shooting Flintlocks so nobody is asking for it, nobody is buying it...so they don't stock it, etc.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you will google Goex, you will get a map with the distributors closest to you, and their phone number. Call them. They will be happy to ship you powder, or help you find a local retailer who will order it. I called them with this same question a couple of months ago. Some retailers have run afoul of storage requirements. All they need is an old refrigerator, with a hasp and lock on the door. An old ice box, or even an old coleman metal cooler can serve the purpose. It must be bolted to the floor, but that takes a few minutes of work. The retailers who have stopped carrying it give a dozen reasons why, but the main reason is that they read the industry literature that says everyone is buying inlines. Get your buddies together, and make a list of buyers and consumers of BP who will patronize his store if a dealer will stock it. That should change his mind. Otherwise, find another dealer. Most retailers can't afford to turn their noses up on business, or anger their customer base. Any dealer who would not order powder for me would find me picketing his store within 24 hours, with friends, asking other customers to find somewhere else to shop.

 

[jdixon]

Roundball, you are probably right it is simply supply and demand. However, with so many states contemplating a traditional only deer season, or in some cases already have such, it just makes you wonder if they, the in-line producers and retailers are not trying to muscle out their competition as slight as it is.

 

[roundball]

Roundball, you are probably right it is simply supply and demand. However, with so many states contemplating a traditional only deer season, or in some cases already have such, it just makes you wonder if they, the in-line producers and retailers are not trying to muscle out their competition as slight as it is.

I was basing my feelings on my personal participation in two polls which resulted in only 10-15% of the muzzleloading population using traditional styled firearms...don't think the modern boys need to worry about us as competition.

And again, of those who use traditionsal anything, Flintlocks further yet a small fraction of those...and the BP subs from Walmart do fine for caplocks...I don't think there's a conspiracy

 

[oldarmy]

the BATF is really pushing the B/P ban.
In order to sell B/P the fee is now 200 bucks every 3 years. plus a finger print card and NICS back groung check on every one that "might handle it"
We use B/P in our quarry opperations and we had to have the "EVERYONE" that handles the stuff fingerprinted and background checked.
if you slaped your ex-wife 10 years ago and she filed a complaine, you are out of luck.
they insisted the presidend of the comapny go down to the police stationd and have a finger print card filled out and a back ground check completed.
my local gundealer is going to continue to sell it until he needs to renew his licence and then he is going to drop Goex.
"too much hassle" I will sell proydex.
25 lbs my behind, you can legaly have 50. thats what I am going to keep

 

[ss1]

Seen my first ever flintlock shot last week! It was a sight to behold. Sparklers, smoke, and noise, July the 4th, every time he pulled the trigger. It was a 32 or 36. Cute little thing. I think I am going to half to have one. Did T/C ever make 32 or 36 flint, with set triggers ??

 

[paulvallandigham]

Why not pass the hat at your gun club, or among friends to pay half or all that $300 fee for the retailer? I think it would be worth it to have a ready source of BP near you. Pyrodex is not going to work in your flintlock. And, IF ATF can regulate BP out of existence, how long do you think it will take before they start doing the same with the substitutes? Did you even bother to notice after the Oklahoma City Bombing how much effort Congress and ATF made to come up with some way to regulate Nitrate fertilizers? Or put markers in them? Of course, no attempt to regulate kerosene, or gasoline, or " Fuel Oil", which was the other required component. Did you know that after the 1968 Gun Control Act was passed, ATF actually distributed a pamphlet telling people how to make an explosive using Nitrate fertilizer and fuel oil? AFT did not want people buying dynamite to blow tree stumps, as was commonly done for over 100 years in America.

 

[ss1]

this is the lesson to be learned from " faux " powder: IMHO. I shoot syn powder per, rb. I, like many of us, would not have gotten into the sport of ML with out "faux" powder! WHY, I am afraid of true black powder, it is an explose! After being in ml for 1 1/2 years, I am now thinking of buying a flint lock [they shoot bp]. Before you come down on us 777,rs, or ap people, ask your self " Is it better to have more people in ML, even if they shoot syn powder" If they not in sport, there is no chance they will switch to BP

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Look in the supplier forum here in TMF, Graf has various brands of BP, (including their own, which I really like) 4 pound minimum, $3.75 handling, $20,00 Hazmat fee, and free FedEx shipping to your door.

 

[paulvallandigham]

SS1: You are going to have to use Black powder in that Flintlock, as the synthetics don't ignite in a flint gun.

Glad to have you shooting traditional guns, in addition to those other guns. According to a post just below your own, Graf and Sons, is selling BP at a very cheap price, in volume. I don't know how you can justify buying 777 at those prices. Once you use BP, you will wonder why you ever worried.

If you didn't know, you should know that current BP is very stable, as it is coated in Graphite to eliminate the possibility of it being ignited by static electricity. It is rated for interstate shipment in the one pound cans it is sold in. And, the trucks that carry it don't have to have markings that say they are carrying explosives, etc.

BP can either burn fast, when lit in the open, or blow up( detonate) I have had both happen in the same day within a few minutes of each other. A friend had not pinned his baseplug in his powder horn, and the plug came out and dumped most of his powder on the ground. I fired a blank charge out of my rifle to ignite the first mound and it just burned fast, like a fuse. Unfortunately, he jumped back, lost his balance and fell on the horn, dumping the rest of the powder onto the ground. He asked me to ignite it, and I fired another charge of powder only down my barrel. This time, the small pile of powder detonated. Nice bang, rather BOOM, and a small mushroom cloud disappearing into the sky above. Scared us both, but when we figured our clothes weren't burning nor our eyebrows, and we could still hear each other laugh, we did just that, and walked back to camp.

Keep open flames away from the powder, and keep the powder away from open flames,and you will be okay. Thousands of shooters have gone before you. There is really nothing to be worried about, if you use ordinary care around Black Powder.

 

[ss1]

thanks paulvallandigham . Its the storage of it that now bothers me.[ the price of 777 and goex is about the same here]. You can not buy just 1 can, you might run out Ps, you can use 777 in fl's, but has to be BP in pan, and 5gr BP prime in barrell. That would make for a weak july 4th!

 

[Swampman]

Black Powder is safer than gasoline. I keep around 10 pounds of 3f in my closet, and have for years. I don't think of it as being dangerous at all. The faux powders don't have any realistic safety factors over the real thing.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

thanks paulvallandigham . Ps, you can use 777 in fl's, but has to be BP in pan, and 5gr BP prime in barrell. That would make for a weak july 4th!

But the point is that you still must have the real BP to ignite the 777 or pyrodex or whatever.
and to paulvallandingham, the real problem for retail storage is not the magazine itself, but the fact that it must be located 150 feet from any occupied structure. Few retailers have that much open space.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you run that over a chronograph, SS1, you will not like what you get. A lot of smoke, and noise, but no accuracy worthy of the name. Stick with BP for flint guns. Those duplex loads get discussed alot, but they just don't give consistent velocities.

 

[paulvallandigham]

That is true, but most retailers are not located in large cities, and there is always someone around who has the space that would be willing to let you set up your storage box there. I know a BP gun club that has a magazine built with dirt piled around it, a cement floor, etc. to store black powder dry.

It would seem a small favor to extend to your local dealer to build the storage at your BP club range, and have him buy the stuff with his license, giving him access to the storage so he can sell BP to other customers. Hell, make the guy an honorary member of your club! The club can act as his agent to sell powder to their members. When you need to resupply, take orders and get the money up front, so the dealer does not have to tie up his own money buying the inventory. Let him order whatever additional powder he thinks he can sell, and share the shipping cost, and explosives fee.

These are no unsolvable problems, gentlemen.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

My "local club" is ninety miles away and they don't have a range but are already borrowing the use of the land. It would be a bit much to expect the landowner to take on the additional liability of a powder magazine.
It also would be a bit much to expect my local gun shop owner to drive 180 miles round trip just to sell a few pounds of powder per month.
My solution, so far, has been to order 25 pounds at a time and supply a few friends. But that doesn't help my retailer nor those who drop into her store looking for one can of Goex.
The bottom line is that the typical small gun shop won't make enough profit from black powder sales to even cover the cost of the license.

 

[roundball]

Seen my first ever flintlock shot last week! It was a sight to behold. Sparklers, smoke, and noise, July the 4th, every time he pulled the trigger. It was a 32 or 36. Cute little thing. I think I am going to half to have one. Did T/C ever make 32 or 36 flint, with set triggers ??

Not to my knowledge...the only TC .32/.36 cals I'm aware of were the Cherokee/Seneca line of small size rifles...and they were only offered in caplock